Innovate (Sprintex) Supercharger Owners Topic

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by DeliciousTuning

Interesting... When we tested Innovates their laminova intercooler with on their test mule we were seeing temps drop as much as 100 degrees over the stock temperatures seen on the Innovate Supercharger without the intercooler. We also did some serious testing, out to the desert in the middle of the summer (Chuck Walla Raceway) and the temps stayed consistently low and allowed us to keep the tune more aggressive and of course that that made more power.

Definitely speak to Innovate or Sprintex about this. Something seems amiss.

Also do you know what temps you were seeing on the vehicle with out the intercooler?

Cheers,
William Knose

I don't know what the non-intercooled temps are, never tested it that way, but I've heard stories of much higher temps than I saw. I'm not saying the chargecooler doesn't work, I'm saying it's not good enough in my opinion. For example, most OEM turbocharged vehicles will start to pull timing once charge temperatures get over 60C, and that's on a properly designed forced induction engine.

Originally Posted by Ryan86

I was told that the stock fuel pump and injectors must be used dont need to change.

Fa20Club tuning

Tony been working all weekend and we just not winning.

I can tell you that the stock port injectors are at about 90% duty cycle at around 215 hub HP. With a 70mm pulley and say 230hp they will be pretty much flat out.

[FRSRAVEN]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

I can tell you that the stock port injectors are at about 90% duty cycle at around 215 hub HP, on my setup. With a 70mm pulley and say 230hp they will be pretty much flat out.

Fixed
I've seen various tuners throw different numbers around regarding when the stock injectors and fuel pump should be replaced. I will concede that 250whp is the most common number that I have heard, and seems plenty reasonable. Perhaps some tuners are leaning on the DI injectors more then others.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by FRSRAVEN

Fixed
I've seen various tuners throw different numbers around regarding when the stock injectors and fuel pump should be replaced. I will concede that 250whp is the most common number that I have heard, and seems plenty reasonable. Perhaps some tuners are leaning on the DI injectors more then others.

Yes, of course 'my setup'. Which is 98RON fuel but otherwise no major engine changes.

You can't 'lean on' the DI more than when it's already flat out (there's only so much time you can inject them during a cycle), which it is on 'my setup' where the port injectors are at 90% DC with load IRO 1.7g/rev @ 7k rpm.

[Khorne]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

I don't know what the non-intercooled temps are, never tested it that way, but I've heard stories of much higher temps than I saw. I'm not saying the chargecooler doesn't work, I'm saying it's not good enough in my opinion. For example, most OEM turbocharged vehicles will start to pull timing once charge temperatures get over 60C, and that's on a properly designed forced induction engine.

Somethings wrong my IAT temps are a lot lower than that. Was the coolant bled into the system correctly? I know that Sprintex here are working to fix a problem where bleeding the coolant is is waaaay overly difficult.

During my install they had to take it off the dyno and re bleed the intercooler, I spoke to sprintex about it and they are working on redesigning the system to be a lot easier to bleed in.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Khorne

Somethings wrong my IAT temps are a lot lower than that. Was the coolant bled into the system correctly? I know that Sprintex here are working to fix a problem where bleeding the coolant is is waaaay overly difficult.

During my install they had to take it off the dyno and re bleed the intercooler, I spoke to sprintex about it and they are working on redesigning the system to be a lot easier to bleed in.

How are you measuring your charge temperatures?



I must admit, I am susprised it's currently performing so poorly. I am open to there being a problem isolated to my particular install.

It's taken a good amount of coolant (on or close to the recommended 2.2 litres). The pump makes the right noises when you squeeze the hoses etc. The water goes up and down in the overflow tank when you squeeze hoses. The car has done a few hundred miles since installation so I would expect most air pockets to have been dislodged by now!

[ft_sjo]

Out of interest, anyone running an UEL exhaust manifold/header with this supercharger?

[Calum]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Yes, of course 'my setup'. Which is 98RON fuel but otherwise no major engine changes.

You can't 'lean on' the DI more than when it's already flat out (there's only so much time you can inject them during a cycle), which it is on 'my setup' where the port injectors are at 90% DC with load IRO 1.7g/rev @ 7k rpm.

You do realize that there's eight injectors in your motor right? And that he was talking about the group of four injectors that you didn't mention the duty cycle of? Without knowing what duty cycle your direct injectors are at, yes, a tuner most likely could use the direct injectors more, even with the port injectors at 90% duty cycle.

[Khorne]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

How are you measuring your charge temperatures?



I must admit, I am susprised it's currently performing so poorly. I am open to there being a problem isolated to my particular install.

It's taken a good amount of coolant (on or close to the recommended 2.2 litres). The pump makes the right noises when you squeeze the hoses etc. The water goes up and down in the overflow tank when you squeeze hoses. The car has done a few hundred miles since installation so I would expect most air pockets to have been dislodged by now!

Via the sensor supplied with the kit, the guys who did the install hooked it up for me, and they used it to do the dyno tuning of the car.

Like i said its a problem with the hose design or something, i didnt get the nitty gritty but i will look at getting it tomorrow. The shop had to take an extra day with the install due to the bleeding process with the intercooler (this is the shop that helped develop the prototype kit as well).

They told me there might still be more bubbles in the system to come out and since i picked up the car 4 days ago a lot of coolant has been taken from thetank into the system, enough to need topping up again. This was after they did the extended bleeding of it.

Might be worth rebleeding the system and see how you go.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Calum

You do realize that there's eight injectors in your motor right? And that he was talking about the group of four injectors that you didn't mention the duty cycle of? Without knowing what duty cycle your direct injectors are at, yes, a tuner most likely could use the direct injectors more, even with the port injectors at 90% duty cycle.

I already stated above that the DI is 'flat out'.

[FRSRAVEN]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

I already stated above that the DI is 'flat out'.

So your saying your direct injectors are at 100% duty cycle AND your port injectors are at 90% duty cycle?

Does your dyno read low? From what has been posted on this board previously, your power numbers should not be pegging the stock fuel system. There are people with Vortech kits putting out over 250whp on the stock injectors and pump.
Hell, the Jackson racing crew are claiming 280whp on their stock kit with the stock fueling system. Now, not all dyno's are the same...which may be the case here.

Regardless, fuel upgrades are never a bad thing.....unless they burn you car down :p.

I'm more curious about your findings than anything else, so don't take my post as me trying to argue with you.
Its interesting that if you ask 5 different tuners when you should upgrade the stock fueling system, you'll get 5 different answers. I think Robispec is sitting somewhere close to 285whp with nothing but a pump upgrade.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by FRSRAVEN

So your saying your direct injectors are at 100% duty cycle AND your port injectors are at 90% duty cycle?

Does your dyno read low? From what has been posted on this board previously, your power numbers should not be pegging the stock fuel system. There are people with Vortech kits putting out over 250whp on the stock injectors and pump.
Hell, the Jackson racing crew are claiming 280whp on their stock kit with the stock fueling system. Now, not all dyno's are the same...which may be the case here.

Regardless, fuel upgrades are never a bad thing.....unless they burn you car down :p.

I'm more curious about your findings than anything else, so don't take my post as me trying to argue with you.
Its interesting that if you ask 5 different tuners when you should upgrade the stock fueling system, you'll get 5 different answers. I think Robispec is sitting somewhere close to 285whp with nothing but a pump upgrade.

I use a dynapack. I don't know if they read low, high, or up with the faeries. I just use dynos for steady state and comparisons.

270-280hp may be possible (on some dynos). You can run the port injectors flat out, as in switched on hard. You can mess with the DI pressure to try and squeeze a bit more out of it. You can run it leaner. Etc. Lots of ways to change the ceiling.

[Ryan86]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Out of interest, anyone running an UEL exhaust manifold/header with this supercharger?

I have UEL and full decatted zorst.

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Out of interest, anyone running an UEL exhaust manifold/header with this supercharger?

@ftc~brz was running a Borla UEL with her Innovate setup but she has since removed it and is looking at turbo setups. I know she had some dyno charts with the setup and they may be posted in her build thread.

[JesseE]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Out of interest, anyone running an UEL exhaust manifold/header with this supercharger?

Yes, I am running borla UEL... what do you want to know about it?