Stock In-Tank Fuel Filter Degradation

[sw20kosh]

Let's try this again. Please keep this informational and factual.

The Issue:
*****It is not proven that E85 will destroy your filter. This is one case of it happening on an almost track-exclusive car.*****

@robispec found out (while diagnosing high rpm hesitation) that the combination of E85 + high flow (maxed out stock injectors) + lots of track competitions (~5k on E85) = a disintegrated fuel pump filter (not the sock filter). No fuel additives were ever used.

The filter:
1. Is encased in the plastic bucket that the fuel pump sits in.
2. Is not serviceable.
3. Is attached with adhesive that may or may not be susceptible to Ethanol degradation.
4. Is composed of a fibrous felt-like material that disseminated throughout Robi's fuel system.
5. The enclosure with the filter in it costs ~$106.65. Part#: 42052CA110
https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/oe_parts_cat.html

Prevalence:
Only one incident of filter degradation so far.

Many other's have been on E85 with no issues thus far though most if not all do not come close to the amount of tracking Robi's car sees.

A counter point to this issue is Don @ Accelerated Performance's car which also has ~5k miles on E85. He sees no problems with his filter. Some argue he hasn't run his car consistently hard like Robi has.

The solution:
We can add various solutions as we go.

I do have a question though: Is this filter even required? Is the sock filter sufficient? Can a new bucket be designed without a filter? Is there a reasonably safe way to cut open the enclosure, remove the filter, and then seal it back up?

If this filter was not absolutely necessary, one could mount an in-line filter downstream of the pump.

Robi's pics of the fibrous filter material:







This is how the filter should look ( @Don@Accelerated picture)





Sportsguy's pic of the enclosure housing the filter:

[SkullWorks]

Maybe change the first line to clarify that this is SPECULATED to be the issue,

Let's not rule out any potentials right off the bat

[brichard0625]

i think you should add all of robispecs pictures and put don's findings as well...lets just try and keep this thread clean and full of valuable information..I love using e-85 but even tho don's filter came up clean i'm sure most of our e85 members are still on the side when using e85. I for one would spend money on a better solution so this does not happen to my car..will def be following this thread

[CBR600RR]

Didn't I read that robispec used lucas fuel injector cleaner? That is a fuel additive isn't it?

[brichard0625]

Originally Posted by CBR600RR

Didn't I read that robispec used lucas fuel injector cleaner? That is a fuel additive isn't it?

he said he never use it in the innovate thread

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by CBR600RR

Didn't I read that robispec used lucas fuel injector cleaner? That is a fuel additive isn't it?

You read the type of speculation that sent the last thread to hell.

Let's keep it to quotable FACTS people.

FACTS unless Robi says it happened I'd rather keep the speculation out of this thread

[Shankenstein]

Is there any information on the type of materials used in our filters? The filter appears to be a corrugated fabric/paper type with stainless caps and an unknown adhesive.

E85's MSDS:
LINK to PDF

Typical fuel filter paper:
Basis Weight = 130 g/m2
Thickness = 0.43 mm
Air Permeability (p=200pa L/m2.s) ≥ 100
Corrugated Depth = 0.23 mm
Max Pore Size = 55 µm
Mean Pore Size = 40 µm
Burst Strength ≥350 kPa
Gurley Stiffness = 2000 mg
Volatile = 4%

[robispec]

also the "clean filter" hasnt been in the car for a while as they have gon to an in house double pumper in the same location.using the stock outer canister...


sweet solution op was 5/11/13
the cellulose bits are between the brown paper coverings i tore open my filter to get samples to compare to the junk that was trapped in my pump sock and sump bowl,fuel lines, DI pump, DI lines PI injectors and finally in my DI injectors.

[Draco-REX]

Let's talk solutions.

Can the filter be removed without destroying the part it's in?

Can we find a replacement that will be E85 hardened? (i.e. a Stainless mesh)

Can we find an alternative? (i.e. in-line E85 filter)

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Let's talk solutions.

Can the filter be removed without destroying the part it's in?

Can we find a replacement that will be E85 hardened? (i.e. a Stainless mesh)

Can we find an alternative? (i.e. in-line E85 filter)

We can't (intelligently) discuss solutions until we have definitively identified the root cause of the failure.

[Yruyur]

Can an existing filter be sent to a lab to determine the adhesive used?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[robispec]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Let's talk solutions.

Can the filter be removed without destroying the part it's in?

Can we find a replacement that will be E85 hardened? (i.e. a Stainless mesh)

Can we find an alternative? (i.e. in-line E85 filter)

filter is glued inside a container

the container is part of the rt side sump return system.

we are working on it

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by robispec

also the "clean filter" hasnt been in the car for a while as they have gon to an in house double pumper in the same location.using the stock outer canister...


sweet solution op was 5/11/13
the cellulose bits are between the brown paper coverings i tore open my filter to get samples to compare to the junk that was trapped in my pump sock and sump bowl,fuel lines, DI pump, DI lines PI injectors and finally in my DI injectors.

For a while?

Was just removed from the car last time I was in Ohio.

Btw it's funny how you deny using fuel additives here on the forum but told me in person while at innovate you had used them before running e85.

John

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by RedLeader

Or you could resort to the same tactics that you/your supporters scream about in other threads where you are called out.

What is so hard about "keeping this informational and factual"?

This MIGHT be a problem, someone noticed their filter degrading after a period of time during which E-85 was used. The car was also tracked heavily, had a prototype FI system installed, and was undergoing testing. Sure, it is so far an isolated incident, but that doesn't mean a VENDOR should be basically calling another VENDOR a liar.


*Note: Lets see if I get banned for daring to confront a vendor about his practices*

Don't start this again please. Other thread got locked. Why exactly is that his post can't be Factual?

Both vendors have different accounts and experiences on this topic, let the evidence run its course. Like you said SO FAR its an isolated incident.