UEL + Turbo

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by SilverTipp

But where's the proof saying this has to be the case? Most turbo kits are designed around EL because it's easier to design around and it's what everyone does ... but who has the proof that a turbo kit actually designed around a UEL manifold can't be it's equal?

I guess I mean, where's the proof that crushed your dreams? I can't find definitive proof anywhere?

I could not find numbers proof, but did find several places where it is claimed that for turbo applications EL gives a better top end.
now I still believe we are not talking about 30 + WHP, but I can see why EL would be able to give you a better top end, thus even if it is 5 whp, it still will provide best performance.

[Jesse@JDLAutodesign]

so many variables on a turbo car...i really doubt its a big difference if both manifold are well built with nice fitment, collector etc. I'd rather have the UEL and turn the boost up half psi if thats the difference...

[vgi]

@SmsAlSuwaidi @Sportsguy83
Ok guys, take a break, have a smoke and sleep it over.
Maybe you'll change you mind again.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Jesse@JDLAutodesign

so many variables on a turbo car...i really doubt its a big difference if both manifold are well built with nice fitment, collector etc. I'd rather have the UEL and turn the boost up half psi if thats the difference...

But why wouldn't it matter much? Don't you think that the higher RPMs when exhaust gases are trying to get out at high speeds interfering with one another should be bad?


Also, I just can't believe there is no real hardcore data on this...

If somebody could tell me here is a test, Car A, EL 500 WHP, 420 WTQ.

Car A, now with UEL, 490 WHP, 415 WTQ, very similar power bands, I'd say f*ck it I'm going UEL...

[jamesm]

If you say el/uel doesn't matter much, then by extension you have to believe that twin scroll housings are of no benefit. Sort of lol.

[Jesse@JDLAutodesign]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

But why wouldn't it matter much? Don't you think that the higher RPMs when exhaust gases are trying to get out at high speeds interfering with one another should be bad?


Also, I just can't believe there is no real hardcore data on this...

If somebody could tell me here is a test, Car A, EL 500 WHP, 420 WTQ.

Car A, now with UEL, 490 WHP, 415 WTQ, very similar power bands, I'd say f*ck it I'm going UEL...

I've seen plenty of manifold testing done. Length wasn't the concern like i stated earlier. The objective was to equalize the pressure drop across all 4 runners. A 3" long bend it not the same as a 3" long straight, Pressure loss is quite a bit different between the 2.

The parking lot of our shop and the shops next to us is filled with 8/9 second cars running Motec, cnc heads, dogbox transmissions, custom everything...i don't think one of them has a perfectly equal length manifold....My point is that if you like the sound of UEL then get that.

[Jesse@JDLAutodesign]

Originally Posted by jamesm

If you say el/uel doesn't matter much, then by extension you have to believe that twin scroll housings are of no benefit. Sort of lol.

what does twin scroll have to do with el/uel? And i do believe they are a benefit...but its a split pulse setup.

[jamesm]

Exhaust pulse timing. It either matters or it doesn't. The comment was really more of a joke though, hence the 'sort of' at the end.

[SirBrass]

This discussion has been done to death in WRX/STI land and is still repeated over and over.

From what I've been able to tell, EL's do provide a gain, but that gain is negligible until you're getting into the massive power builds (500 or even 600+ all-wheel hp)... basically not until you're in STI ultimate beast mode territory. There, ELH. For what we're doing in these cars, it doesn't matter. ELH and UEL will functionally be the same performance-wise, and if there's any gains to be had, they won't really affect much comparatively.

Obviously UEL's are liked b/c they help give us that distinctive boxer sound. So, going to an aftermarket UEL instead of an aftermarket EL would be for the same reasons you'd choose one performance exhaust over another: you like the sound better.

Me, I like the UEL boxer rumble. Love it. I want my BRZ to rumble and growl.

[nonicname returns]

I would sacrifice 10hp any day for the awesome boxer rumble given by the UEL.
besides the difference between UEL and EL is useless.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by nonicname returns

I would sacrifice 10hp any day for the awesome boxer rumble given by the UEL.
besides the difference between UEL and EL is useless.

No it's useless, when you're running cars that are up there or drag, 10whp and torque do make a difference

[midnight23]

most people won't feel a difference between 10WHP and torque past 300WHP, it would need to be a larger difference. So if you're a normal joe and just wants a fun street car that sounds awesome just go unequal and enjoy your car. Don't sacrifice a sound you like for 10WHP/TQ. But if you want to kill lambos in mexico, by all means go equal.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

This discussion has been done to death in WRX/STI land and is still repeated over and over.

From what I've been able to tell, EL's do provide a gain, but that gain is negligible until you're getting into the massive power builds (500 or even 600+ all-wheel hp)... basically not until you're in STI ultimate beast mode territory. There, ELH. For what we're doing in these cars, it doesn't matter. ELH and UEL will functionally be the same performance-wise, and if there's any gains to be had, they won't really affect much comparatively.

Obviously UEL's are liked b/c they help give us that distinctive boxer sound. So, going to an aftermarket UEL instead of an aftermarket EL would be for the same reasons you'd choose one performance exhaust over another: you like the sound better.

Me, I like the UEL boxer rumble. Love it. I want my BRZ to rumble and growl.

Please provide the links to these results in the STI world. All I ever see is comparing the stock UEL manifold to aftermarket EL which will OBVIOUSLY provide 30 + whp gains. Also, there's theories out there that using UEL's helps exacerbate the ringland issue by keeping cylinder temperatures uneven.

I LOVE the Subaru rumble, but will not venture to go with it without knowing exactly how much HP I am leaving on the table. Its cool to theorize its 10, 20, 5 but I like numbers and hard data. Does it change the power curve, does it keep EGT's higher? Does it provide any advantage or only sound? All unanswered.

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Please provide the links to these results in the STI world. All I ever see is comparing the stock UEL manifold to aftermarket EL which will OBVIOUSLY provide 30 + whp gains. Also, there's theories out there that using UEL's helps exacerbate the ringland issue by keeping cylinder temperatures uneven.

I LOVE the Subaru rumble, but will not venture to go with it without knowing exactly how much HP I am leaving on the table. Its cool to theorize its 10, 20, 5 but I like numbers and hard data. Does it change the power curve, does it keep EGT's higher? Does it provide any advantage or only sound? All unanswered.

After reading Drift Office's dyno of the JDL UEL, I really don't think it's mattering as much as people think it is. I think a lot goes into the design of a proper UEL and collector. I'm just not sure we've truly seen a "well designed" EL (cough Nameless) yet besides the HKS. Even then, the gap between both is very small after looking at the data. It sounds like the EL would be the preferred method, but I'm sure 98% of people will not see that massive difference.