Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Calum]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Contrary to popular belief, the MAF sensor doesn't 'add more fuel'. The ECU does, based on load readings. If the tables in the ECU are not scaled for those higher MAF readings, then you'll go lean and eventually misfire. That's if something doesn't melt first.

Or you'll go into a limp mode.

Also, another hurdle will with the factory MAP sensor. The ECU might go into a limp mode if it sees a positive manifold pressure.

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

Automakers are notoriously slow to adopt new technology to cars. Direct injection has been around for decades and is only now seeing widespread use on cars. Does it not work? Turbos were in use in aviation for many years before they were put on cars. Do they not work?
A wise man once said, "it is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." Take his advice.

You are correct as when you put technology in all of the fields. Space and aviation technology are always a head of Automotive.

Has there been any Electrical FI in Space technology or Airplane ?

There would be, I logically think. But it gotta be HUGE!

Originally Posted by Whitigir

4/ Manufacturers had been looking for alternative solutions beside actual Turbos, and SC systems. But why dont you see anything in racing, or produced by them ? It doesnt work. Technically it works for a short time, but do you drive for only 15 minutes every day at constant 2000 rpm ?

5/ when a manufacturers dont produce something = because of cost, if it cost too much and they r more likely to lose profit, they wont produce. But they will put it in Concept, or Race car to let the world knows of their capability. But when all Auto makers dont...that means it doesnt work! Show me one auto maker that have this similar electric system ?

Look at #4 what I said. Please read it first before you want to correct something. I said it works, but it is not Practical enough to be made (reliability aside)

Actually, I should not argue over this. I may be that stupid person who rely on the Present Facts and Logics to say it is not efficient to be in a car. The op here, or someone may invent it in the future, but I know for decades, it has not Worked in a car as it should.

Then I would kindly ask you, base on what do you bring about your arguments ? why should it work in efficiently in an automotive engine ?

[Gixxersixxerman]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

You are correct as when you put technology in all of the fields. Space and aviation technology are always a head of Automotive.

Has there been any Electrical FI in Space technology or Airplane ?

There would be, I logically think. But it gotta be HUGE!




Look at #4 what I said. Please read it first before you want to correct something. I said it works, but it is not Practical enough to be made (reliability aside)

I believe he is going to show you one here in the next week or so lol

Do you know about brushless motors, the torque and power of one.. I think it's been stated multiple times that this most likely won't give anything up top.. But the big snail boosted a chevy V8 I believe and that gulps a lot of air.. If this get rid of the torque dip and adds some down low, it might just be what some people want..

Also as you stated this isn't your native language, maybe you missed the part that this is only active under wide open throttle.. So the point you bring up about how much of a restriction is valid, which is something I'm wondering about.. Maybe it free spoils easily enough not to be to restrictive.. Just like putting a vacuum hose to the discharge end of a turbo you can hear it "spoil" maybe this won't be to bad.. So cruising any amount of time doesn't matter as the system isn't active.. Just under WOT

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by Gixxersixxerman

I believe he is going to show you one here in the next week or so lol

Do you know about brushless motors, the torque and power of one.. I think it's been stated multiple times that this most likely won't give anything up top.. But the big snail boosted a chevy V8 I believe and that gulps a lot of air.. If this get rid of the torque dip and adds some down low, it might just be what some people want..

Also as you stated this isn't your native language, maybe you missed the part that this is only active under wide open throttle.. So the point you bring up about how much of a restriction is valid, which is something I'm wondering about.. Maybe it free spoils easily enough not to be to restrictive.. Just like putting a vacuum hose to the discharge end of a turbo you can hear it "spoil" maybe this won't be to bad.. So cruising any amount of time doesn't matter as the system isn't active.. Just under WOT

I would love to see the result.

I know for the same principle of WOT or some forms of assistance to the turbo is being Worked on by Subaru, they already Patented it.

Hybrid turbo from SUbaru

1/ Turbo is built with the shaft being housed inside as a shaft of the electric motor, the turbos still have wheel attach to the exhaust, and turbine to the intake.

2/ eMotor will assist the turbo at sudden WOT, or when turbo isn't spinning fast enough, or until the Turbo is Self-Sufficient, and then the turbo is working as the regular turbo, and the eMotor is cut off. This will spin the Turbo immediately and eliminate turbo lag.

3/ eMotor will use the charge off the battery and or regenerative brakes, may even have it's own battery.

4/ if the Battery is low, the turbo will act as a regular turbo, with turbo lag

Now that is the perfect of both worlds, a Turbo that is built in a house of an eMotor. I don't know much about it, or detail, but it is how it supposed to work.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Contrary to popular belief, the MAF sensor doesn't 'add more fuel'. The ECU does, based on load readings. If the tables in the ECU are not scaled for those higher MAF readings, then you'll go lean and eventually misfire. That's if something doesn't melt first.

100 percent agree. It's easier to explain to people that the maf will add fuel when in reality that maf airflow is tracked per engine rpm and that results in engine load. The engine load level has timings associated to it. If the scale doesn't go high enough you are correct it will go lean.

The thing that I think we may see is the timing will be too high for the load levels experienced. The engine will be able to retard the timing but we don't want it to be retarding out of necessity.

Don't worry I want to do this right too!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

[fenton]

Map sensor is 1.5 bar. It can see up to 5psi and deal with it. We will not be boosting more than 5 psi, it is impossible in this setup we have.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by fenton

Map sensor is 1.5 bar. It can see up to 5psi and deal with it. We will not be boosting more than 5 psi, it is impossible in this setup we have.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Stock ecu is capped at 200g/s maf reading.. beyond that the ecu will not increase load any further and (since you will be stuck and an artificially lower load) you will go lean and have too much timing advance as @ft_sjo stated. Stock maf scaling is good for 260g/s but the load cap table is 200g/s. I hit about 160g/s max NA with a couple bolt on partss, so you may or may not run into the cap. I think you should be aware of it though weather you hit it or not.

There is also a load cap table that limits load to a max of 1.3 g/rev in stock form (I hit and hold 1.2g/rev from midrange and up):
RPM Load Limit (g/rev)
800 0.880
1000 0.900
1200 0.890
2000 0.920
2200 0.920
2400 1.070
2500 1.110
3000 1.100
3200 1.300



I think your going to need a tuning solution if you want to do this correctly

[fenton]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Stock ecu is capped at 200g/s maf reading.. beyond that the ecu will not increase load any further and (since you will be stuck and an artificially lower load) you will go lean and have too much timing advance as @ft_sjo stated. Stock maf scaling is good for 260g/s but the load cap table is 200g/s. I hit about 160g/s max NA with a couple bolt on partss, so you may or may not run into the cap. I think you should be aware of it though weather you hit it or not.

There is also a load cap table that limits load to a max of 1.3 g/rev in stock form (I hit and hold 1.2g/rev from midrange and up):
RPM Load Limit (g/rev)
800 0.880
1000 0.900
1200 0.890
2000 0.920
2200 0.920
2400 1.070
2500 1.110
3000 1.100
3200 1.300



I think your going to need a tuning solution if you want to do this correctly

Thanks you very much for this information. I have Visconti stage 1 and I believe he increases the scale on the maf and gets rid of all load limits.

We will have a tuner on site for the dyno :-)

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[post_break]

Everyone is going to be eating their words when the dyno results come in. Or OP will disappear when it doesn't work. Until then I'm going to be positive and hope it works out.

[continuecrushing]

In for more info

[fenton]

Originally Posted by post_break

Everyone is going to be eating their words when the dyno results come in. Or OP will disappear when it doesn't work. Until then I'm going to be positive and hope it works out.

Promise I won't disappear. I will be posting the results. Good or bad.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

[chadstyle]

Originally Posted by fenton

Promise I won't disappear. I will be posting the results. Good or bad.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

I think you will make gains without a doubt IF you can boost anywhere close to 5 PSi as you mentioned this setup is capped at. When will you be completing the install? Will you be posting pics along the way?

Again, good luck!

[mid_life_crisis]

I've said it multiple times, but too many people don't seem to get it. This is not meant to compete with full time FI systems. The closest comparison is a NOS system that never has to be refilled.
The developer's web page makes it clear that it worked on the other two vehicles he tried it on because their computers had enough extra capacity in their fuel/timing tables to be able to adjust to the max airflow of the device. If the system doesn't work on an 86 platform it will be because the base program can't compensate, not because the turbo doesn't deliver the promised airflow. This is a real turbo with the drive side replaced with an electric motor, not a computer fan or a landscape blower stuck under the hood.

[nonicname]

why is this activated only at full throttle?
aren't there any benefits at partial throttle or even pressure according to
how much you press the gas pedal?