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Engine Swaps Discussion of engine swaps. |
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06-28-2015, 11:57 PM | #15 |
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At least in USA, a 'cheap' engine swap is possible. Just swap in a 6.0L & T56 from the late model GTO. It fits, hood closes, oil pan clears, shifter is in right location. There's one on ebay for $6500. Use the money from the sale of the FA20 for any other pieces you need, mounts, ECU, fuel hoses, driveshaft, etc.
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06-29-2015, 01:04 AM | #16 |
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You could run a can bus monitor and see what messages the oem system is sending to reverse engineer the system. You might have to gather some info for arbitrary id.
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06-29-2015, 06:00 AM | #17 |
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what if i swap 3uz and connect swap ecu with fa20 ecus with CANBUS
do you guys think it can hear each other? or if i use OP2 or ecutek to take off the cel code ?? is it work? |
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06-29-2015, 04:36 PM | #18 |
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I was planning on decoding the can bus and have the ecu manufacturer write a new firmware with the information I suplied for a swap. The customer suplied the ecu, they wanted probably around $2500 usd for the firmware to integrate the ecu. Good luck with your plan and hope you get it worked out as it will help others later down the line.
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06-29-2015, 05:03 PM | #19 |
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I've done considerable research into this topic. When you get passed all of the hardware and wiring requirements, this is the first step in what it's going to take to seamlessly integrate the two CANBUS networks.
You will need to reflash the stock FRS/BRZ ECU and change the CAN lookup table. Change CANID 0x141 to 0x142. Then, have your controller listen for 0x142, read the values, change what you need (such as putting the LS engine RPM from the LS PCM in the correct byte), and rebroadcast your modified byte string on 0x141. This will make sure no other components are listening to the Suby ECU except your controller. Your controller will broadcast on 0x141 and fool the entire network. Rinse and repeat for any other IDs you need.
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06-29-2015, 06:12 PM | #20 | |
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Quote:
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07-01-2015, 12:19 PM | #21 |
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There are numerous values the main ECU spits out on to the CANBUS that other control modules rely on. I was never able to fully map the CAN IDs but I think it would be almost impossible to synthesize all of them.
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07-01-2015, 05:36 PM | #22 | |||||
...Just add nauseum
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Ok, fair points. Let me address them.
Quote:
Quote:
That said, would you care to share what you did spend on your Motec? because your only other comment on the issue was a vague "9k on Motec, wiring, and sensors" in another thread. Also, I can get the box cheaper, as the Pontiac Solstice transmission is externally identical to the R154 and bolts right up to r154 bellhousing. Small issue with input shaft being too long can be solved with a 1" spacer. And the shifter is already far enough back on the Pontiac derivative. Quote:
Anyway, this whole idea came from curiosity about how hard the CAN BUS stuff really is. People have had success driving CAN gauges with megasquirt on their own, can bus sniffing and broadcasting devices are cheap. (see CAN BUS Triple.) Also, digging through the wiring diagrams, it seems like most of the essential CAN functions are done by other devices, such as the main body ECU, and the engine ECM does very little can-related stuff. (It initially seems that way, I could be wrong, but that's what this thread is FOR!!!) Quote:
Quote:
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07-02-2015, 12:39 PM | #23 |
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Some more information that was requested via PM. Figured I would share it here. I was never able to spend a lot of time on CANBUS discovery, but it should help some.
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07-02-2015, 12:40 PM | #24 |
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For anyone doing CANBUS work, as a rule of thumb, listening to the bus for the information you need is ALWAYS better than requesting it. And chances are, the information you need is already being broadcast.
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07-09-2015, 04:13 AM | #25 |
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Our Synergy powered V8 car uses a package that we worked with Motec to develop. We can run pretty much any port injected engine in the 86 / BRZ platform with all gauges, power steering, fuel pump working as factory. Currently we are working on a Lexus V8 and a Toyota V6 installation.
http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/06/...y-at-11600rpm/ http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/01/...ynergy-brz-v8/ Have no idea where the USD6,500 price comes from. Would be under USD4,000 including the adapter loom to go between the M150 and the original factory OEM ECU connector. |
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07-09-2015, 11:02 AM | #26 |
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Love the Synergy BRZ! <3
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07-09-2015, 11:04 AM | #27 | |
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Quote:
Please feel free to correct any of the following statements as well: "Under 4000" is still a lot of money, considering many other aftermarket ECU's with CAN connections sell for under $2000. The patch loom is great and all, but anyone swapping is going to have to wire up the new engine as well, which would involve another patch loom and adapted harness on the engine side. I was under the impression that re-pinning the few factory wires that need to be kept to the new ECU plug, wiring in the engine, and stripping out any unnecessary factory wires was a much cleaner way to do it. |
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07-09-2015, 06:42 PM | #28 |
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No development license is required. We have our own partner package so the package to run what we call the 86 Engine Swap costs the same as Motec's standard Toyota 86 package. Synergy used the 86 Engine Swap package on both those cars. They sell it as part of a complete kit with their engine and all the other parts to get their engine into the car. When Jun got their kit, their original engine was out of the car and they were driving down the road with their Synergy engine installed 8 hours later. Not a single hole drilled in the chassis or any cutting or welding.
For the wiring in those cars we used the connectors off the factory engine looms. The standard engine has so many inputs and outputs (8 injectors, 4 x cam control, 4 x cam sensors etc) that between the two connectors you have enough pins to wire most engines. We used an adapter loom between the Motec ECU and the factory ECU connector then made our own engine loom using the two connectors off the factory engine loom (54-way and 8-way). Yes there are plenty of other ECUs selling on the market for USD2,000 but the two missing factors are how configurable the ECUs CAN-bus is (I have not seen a $2,000 ECU which lets you put timers on the CAN-bus) and do you have the time and resources to reverse engineer the OEM CAN-bus? Also, who many ECUs have enough pins to do what you want to do? If you are building a race car and gutting the car, then yes, make new wiring looms. If the car is going to be used on the road and you want everything to work as per factory then I felt the adapter looms were the right way to go. I hope this answers your questions. |
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