FA20 Engine Oiling, Bearings, and Starvation

[LittleBlueGT]

What about an oil-cooler built into the core of a custom Radiator?

I have one that I put into my STI, got it from Ron-Davis. It is similair in concept to an auto-tranny cooler, but the cooler is designed a bit different.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT

What about an oil-cooler built into the core of a custom Radiator?

I have one that I put into my STI, got it from Ron-Davis. It is similair in concept to an auto-tranny cooler, but the cooler is designed a bit different.

Robispec did that. Then a bunch of them corroded and he disappeared off the forum.

[Element Tuning]

I'm running a pretty big core now but I did look into massive radiator size coolers like used in Nascar. You either spends thousands on that or on a dry sump and the dry sump won out for me.

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Maybe the Remax gear can get people without our engine build up some but I'm really not optimistic it's going to be enough for you guys on it's own. We have with our build 85 psi to 8k and about 80 psi to 9k RPM at operating temps (dyno and hard street) and most OEM engine builds are lucky to see 55 psi to 7000 RPM. I'm asking the Remax gear to give me plus 20 psi under racing conditions but many are hoping it will give them what we already have (+30 psi) along with what we need for racing (+20) which would total +50 psi more oil pressure. It's a long shot!

So what would you recommend doing on top of (or instead of) getting the Reimax pump gear? Sorry if it was mentioned earlier in this thread but its now 25 pages long. I'm not going to be pushing my car to the limits you are (it will mainly be used on the street), but I'm getting forged internals soon so that I can increase the turbo boost a fair bit and I was wondering if I needed to do anything with the oil pump at the same time - the only suggestion has been to get this Reimax gear but it seems like you're saying that probably won't be enough.

[sam69]

Originally Posted by ChrisD

So what would you recommend doing on top of (or instead of) getting the Reimax pump gear? Sorry if it was mentioned earlier in this thread but its now 25 pages long. I'm not going to be pushing my car to the limits you are (it will mainly be used on the street), but I'm getting forged internals soon so that I can increase the turbo boost a fair bit and I was wondering if I needed to do anything with the oil pump at the same time - the only suggestion has been to get this Reimax gear but it seems like you're saying that probably won't be enough.

I'm in the same boat re the Riemax gears but it might not be enough for racing although it could be more than enough for a DD and occasional club track run

At least this is what I'm hoping but Element might be able to shed more light on this.


The guy who is doing the motor has suggested getting the crank oil phased as well and cleaning up the galleries where possible so what are the thoughts on this with the FA20 ?

[EAGLE5]

Read through the thread. It will explain all.

In sum:
Can't modify the pump enough for big power on the track.
Between pump mods, accusump, massive cooling, and thick oil, massive power can be handled at the track.
A dry sump is the long term solution, but it's expensive and might require deleting the AC.

If you're just driving on the street, none of this probably matters, and a reimax pump upgrade might get you some peace of mind.

If you're buying forged parts piecemeal to put together yourself or with some local shop, you're doing it wrong. Hire somebody who knows what they're doing, like Element or perhaps a few other shops. They've already broken everything on the FA20 that you're going to break by not going to them, and they know how to build your engine so it won't break.

Element is running massive power and pounding on the track with high-g turning, including down force and slicks, with an expert driver. Is that you?

[Kodename47]

Chris, take it to Abbey. Mark has been looking into the oiling issues more than anyone else AFAIK. Plus he'll have built a few engines too by then.

[Hector]

550HP@9000rpm is where Element Tuning operates, but what about lower power levels and different methods of FI?
Some say 350 turbo-PS@7300rpm are no problem for street use and occasional track days on stock internals.
When does it really start to starvate? Do i have that issue on a completely stock car while abusing it on track?

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Read through the thread. It will explain all.

In sum:
Can't modify the pump enough for big power on the track.
Between pump mods, accusump, massive cooling, and thick oil, massive power can be handled at the track.
A dry sump is the long term solution, but it's expensive and might require deleting the AC.

If you're just driving on the street, none of this probably matters, and a reimax pump upgrade might get you some peace of mind.

If you're buying forged parts piecemeal to put together yourself or with some local shop, you're doing it wrong. Hire somebody who knows what they're doing, like Element or perhaps a few other shops. They've already broken everything on the FA20 that you're going to break by not going to them, and they know how to build your engine so it won't break.

Element is running massive power and pounding on the track with high-g turning, including down force and slicks, with an expert driver. Is that you?

Thanks for the summary, and yeah that was my thinking too - that the reimax pump is better than nothing and in reality will probably be enough for my needs. I won't be hammering it round track with down force and sticky tyres, I'm just using it for street driving and the occasional track day on the stock tyres (before anyone tells me to get different tyres - I like going sideways as much as possible). Oh and some slow speed drift days where they wet the track and you don't really get above 30 mph.

I can't take it to Element as they're in a different country to me, but I've been using Fensport to do a lot of the tuning/modification work so far and they seem to be known as one of the best places in the UK for GT86 work (they have a track only car themselves that they're running about 450 bhp on, albeit with race fuel). I'll definitely be consulting them but just looking to get opinions on here as well so that I'm not completely relying on their recommendations and nothing else.

[grant]

did anyone ever do a review on the reimax pump gears? I know Element has their fix that they hold closely to their chest (rightfully so, and don't blame you for keeping your secret) but like others interested in a weekend project/insurance policy, until motor build funds are sourced it would be nice to see if there's a cheaper quick fix/band-aid like the gears and oil coolers

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Chris, take it to Abbey. Mark has been looking into the oiling issues more than anyone else AFAIK. Plus he'll have built a few engines too by then.

I have already spoken to them, but I'm a little put off by the fact that he said a few things that everyone here seems to disagree with (like saying he's never heard of needing stronger valve springs, yet a lot of people here say valve float is a common problem on higher powered engines with the stock springs and retainers).

[Tim Radley]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

I'm running a pretty big core now but I did look into massive radiator size coolers like used in Nascar. You either spends thousands on that or on a dry sump and the dry sump won out for me.

So have you actually got a working dry sump solution now then? If so can i purchase one from you?

[Tim Radley]

Originally Posted by ChrisD

I have already spoken to them, but I'm a little put off by the fact that he said a few things that everyone here seems to disagree with (like saying he's never heard of needing stronger valve springs, yet a lot of people here say valve float is a common problem on higher powered engines with the stock springs and retainers).

Stock valve springs are weak. You will get float with decent boost.

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

Stock valve springs are weak. You will get float with decent boost.

Exactly, everyone seems to agree on this. So when Abbey told me that I didn't need to bother with valve springs, it kind of made me think I can't really trust everything they say (though don't get me wrong, I'm sure they know their stuff in general)