JDL Auto Design - 2014 Exhaust Products

[JDLAutoDesign]

Originally Posted by EquiFox

If we talked by email, then I am crazy and I can't remember it haha.

My name is not jordan, confusing me with someone else ?

Should I contact you by email to get a spot in the waiting queue ?

Ill PM you.

[Fizz]

So....the dyno.....when can we see it?

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by Fizz

So....the dyno.....when can we see it?

erhm... oop sorry its been a horribly busy week! I'll post dyno's of the header today once I get a little more caught up. The catted header did fairly decent up top, the torque dip was a bit to be desired but having that cat that close to the engine really doesn't help when a header is designed for higher RPM power. Overall gains were fairly decent and the audible part of the header was extremely pleasing, I have a clip somewhere i'll upload to youtube today/tomorrow.

[Fizz]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

erhm... oop sorry its been a horribly busy week! I'll post dyno's of the header today once I get a little more caught up. The catted header did fairly decent up top, the torque dip was a bit to be desired but having that cat that close to the engine really doesn't help when a header is designed for higher RPM power. Overall gains were fairly decent and the audible part of the header was extremely pleasing, I have a clip somewhere i'll upload to youtube today/tomorrow.

No worries, I was just teasing. So I gather then that the catted header doesn't perform as well as the uncatted header in terms of bumping up the torque dip area? Hmmm....wonder if I should pay extra for the catted or just go with catless header.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Fizz

No worries, I was just teasing. So I gather then that the catted header doesn't perform as well as the uncatted header in terms of bumping up the torque dip area? Hmmm....wonder if I should pay extra for the catted or just go with catless header.

The odd thing is, it appears based on a few independent dynos that "the other" catted UEL header seems to eliminate the torque dip completely. Wonder what the secret behind their design is.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by Fizz

No worries, I was just teasing. So I gather then that the catted header doesn't perform as well as the uncatted header in terms of bumping up the torque dip area? Hmmm....wonder if I should pay extra for the catted or just go with catless header.

I would go catless if you dont need the cat, or if you need the noise reduction get the catted. The torque dip was still quite apparent but the mid RPM and high RPM was quite nice. It seemed as if the catted UEL made more power from 4-5k RPM than the UEL. But significantly less from 3,600 to 4,600. Top end was very similar on the catted edition though!

[the new guy]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

I would go catless if you dont need the cat, or if you need the noise reduction get the catted. The torque dip was still quite apparent but the mid RPM and high RPM was quite nice. It seemed as if the catted UEL made more power from 4-5k RPM than the UEL. But significantly less from 3,600 to 4,600. Top end was very similar on the catted edition though!

Was this on the stock tune?


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[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The odd thing is, it appears based on a few independent dynos that "the other" catted UEL header seems to eliminate the torque dip completely. Wonder what the secret behind their design is.

Different runner length & collector style. There is a lot involved with how scavenging affects work. The car I tuned this week made something like 10-15% WHP gain at peak from just the header. FT86speed factory posted a dyno of theirs making less than 10% iirc. I dyno tuned before and after the header install (no other changes)and if anything the tune was more conservative with the header...

The engine load in the torque dip was fairly low so I am going to guess the scavenging was not so efficient in the torque dip with the catted header. Mind you this was a prototype... I was pretty disappointed at first until we pulled up the finished results and i was actually surprised at the fact it made a fairly consistent torque increase at nearly every RPM and it really didn't fall off much up top. I think if I would have played with the VVT a tad more up top i might be able to hold and extend the power to a higher RPM than I usually tune for. possibly usable power upwards of 7,800-8,000RPM even on pump gas. However I obviously don't recommend revving to 8,000 as it hasn't been thoroughly tested in extreme conditions.

[nelsmar]

I have attached the catted UEL plot bellow. But before you jump to conclusions based on numbers...

The car already had a perrin 3" exhaust, nameless catted FP/OP combo, and a drop in filter. This car was an automatic. This dyno reads extremely low (something like 20-25% lower than a dynojet). Auto's run 120-130WHP on this, manuals are 130-140WHP.

The baseline was his exhaust, FP/OP, and drop in filter after dyno tuning, the header was installed the next day and re-tuned using similar techniques. The baseline peak was 132WHP. This was consistent through multiple pulls. The final numbers ranged from 147-150WHP so I plotted one of the more "average" results rather than the highest. (It was pretty warm out, even though this dyno does great at compensation when you break into 110F weather the car likes to start to give you hell).

If you notice the power gains were at nearly every RPM... so yes there was a torque dip but there were gains in the torque dip. But from what I have seen the UEL headers from multiple companies are giving nearly no gains at about 5kRPM where as this one is giving a stead 2-5WTQ through that entire region.

I forgot what the peak WTQ was on the tuned baseline but it was a WTQ gain of ~10-11%. The WHP gain was 16WHP netting ~12% WHP gain. This is actually quite decent... This car was starting to get closer to a lot of the tuned manual cars peak gains, and as you can see the tq was barely falling at 7,500RPM. Overall this header is actually quite decent. Even if you look at just the WHP gains considering this is an automatic and you compare it to higher reading dynos this is still a very decent gain.

[nelsmar]

For those of you wondering how much of the torque dip was elminated here is a plot with one of hte stock roms with the OEM header. I flashed the stock rom with the advanced multiplier set to 1.0 and did some constant load driving for 5-10 minutes and started doing pulls. It was losing power every pull. I pulled one of the middle pulls. This came in at 128WHP. The lowest I got was 124WHP and it was still losing power on every pull... I was guessing it was going to land 121-123WHP with the stock rom after learning fully kicked in. I figured I would just get one of the middle plots so that way it doesn't look like I am "fluffing" my numbers up. The torque dip was basically cut in half. The header gave a weird torque bump at a really low RPM making the illusion of the torque dip even worse (but in reality it just had an odd resonance gain at the lower rpm??)

[wizzo]

Seems like the JDL EL has had the best results so far judging my Nelsmars dynos

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by wizzo

Seems like the JDL EL has had the best results so far judging my Nelsmars dynos

If you are only judging the torque dip elimination yes it is. When it comes to power gain the UEL makes more. But I haven't tested an EL on anyone with an OP at this point...

[wizzo]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

If you are only judging the torque dip elimination yes it is. When it comes to power gain the UEL makes more. But I haven't tested an EL on anyone with an OP at this point...

Ive always known that 4-1 and EL are more top end orientated, was this not your finding? My car might be the first JDL EL you tune with a full 2.75 inch exhaust

[calmtigers]

@nelsmar thank you for being complete and thorough with all your testing glad to see tuners like you working on the platform and this forum