Florida Cop Tasers Cuffed Girl Who Became Braindead As A Result

[radroach]

Originally Posted by Atropine

Something I am noticing...

A lot of people living in California seem to feel the police there are really rough and borderline criminal.

I don't live there, so I have a hard time commenting.

I've been ticketed by a state trooper in CA, I got to say the first thing I noticed was that he carried a taser and I'm sure he noticed that too (there was an exchange of notices!) but his manner was very calm and he lowered the amount I was speeding, it was still a very expensive ticket.

[Dave-ROR]

Not saying that he wasn't a total nutjob, but surely you've heard of the
Blue Code of Silence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Blue Code of Silence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
. You know, the unspoken rule that anyone who speaks out against your fellow officers would be shunned and outcast? This is a documented and well-known thing. He may have been wrong, he may have been right, but if he was right, this would prevent anyone from saying anything.

"It’s called the Blue Code of Silence, an unwritten rule among police officers not to rat on a fellow officer. Many feel it’s futile to challenge the blue code, because doing so could mean breaking longstanding traditions and feelings of brotherhood within law enforcement. Violating the silence could lead to being shunned, losing friends, losing back-up, receiving threats, having one’s own misconduct exposed and being terminated."

Quote from here.

Just sayin'.

Of course. However in the Dorner case I don't think that's what happened. Picking that example is one of the worst ones around.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

I know you don't want to play the "what if" game, but what if that girl that did two hit and runs and was subsequently tased and killed was one of your children, your brother or sister, or girlfriend/wife? It is easy to categorize people who commit crimes as less than human because we don't know anything about them other than the fact that they committed a crime. Put the face and soul of someone you care about to this individual and then see if you feel the same way.

FWIW, I have had many friends in rehab, friends who've gone to jail, family that has done some pretty bad things, and while I believe they deserved their punishment, none have deserved to die for what they've done.

No one has said that she deserved to die.

However, the chances of her dying from getting hit with the taser are probably less in that situation than you believe. I'd put the chances of her dying from that cop jumping on her as higher than what happened. If everyone who fell down without muscle control onto concrete died from serious brain injuries from the impact then a large majority of fights ending with a knockout would end this way. It's just not that common. I seriously doubt that he had any intention of causing serious or fatal harm to her when he made the decision to use his taser against her. There's a chance, but there's a chance he would have gotten in a car wreck transporting her also. There's a chance she would have gotten injured during the arrest. There's a chance she would have gotten injured during booking, etc, etc. None of those things are done with the INTENTION of causing serious bodily harm or death to the suspect but it can happen. Does that just mean we should have the police do anything?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Do you have a figure - aside from anecdotal experience - to quantify that TBI from head injury in a fall is an uncommon occurrence, Dave?

[OrangeJuleas]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

No one has said that she deserved to die.

However, the chances of her dying from getting hit with the taser are probably less in that situation than you believe. I'd put the chances of her dying from that cop jumping on her as higher than what happened. If everyone who fell down without muscle control onto concrete died from serious brain injuries from the impact then a large majority of fights ending with a knockout would end this way. It's just not that common. I seriously doubt that he had any intention of causing serious or fatal harm to her when he made the decision to use his taser against her. There's a chance, but there's a chance he would have gotten in a car wreck transporting her also. There's a chance she would have gotten injured during the arrest. There's a chance she would have gotten injured during booking, etc, etc. None of those things are done with the INTENTION of causing serious bodily harm or death to the suspect but it can happen. Does that just mean we should have the police do anything?

I'm not saying that if the cop tackled her (which probably also wouldn't have been necessary considering his size), that the chances she would receive serious injury would be less. I am saying two things:

1. When you tase a standing person, the chances of them falling on the ground are nearly 100%. They will fall and hit themselves somewhere on their body. The chances of you falling and injuring yourself are prety high (especially if you can't instinctively throw your hands out to catch your fall). If he chased her and tackled her and caused brain damage, I would say that is unfortunate and sad, but at least he tried to catch her the right way. Tackling or apprehending people has never been considered a form of torture, but tasing (and I know it has been ruled negatively) has been up several times (and I know the point isn't to cause pain).

2. What I'm saying is that, we know the facts, we have the video and after watching it, I believe he made the wrong call. And all it resulted in was "administrative leave". I believe it should have been more severe. Intentions aside, hypotheticals aside, I would've chased her and tried to catch her. I don't know if she would have jumped in front of a car/stolen another vehicle/found a weapon/jumped off an overpass to her death, but I do know she was in a parking lot, handcuffed and I was far larger than she. His intention was to stop the chase quickly and lazily, in my opinion. From what is known, I believe he made the wrong choice, and it appears so do many others, because there is a reason that we're talking about this.

Just as a note, though, I just want to make it clear to everyone I'm talking to that I'm just debating and mean no personal attack, if it at all seems that way. Just in advance, so that everyone knows its a friendly conversation. This isn't directed towards anyone, just trying to be proactive so nobody gets offended. If you haven't noticed, I just like talking.

Also, I like this community and the people involved, so there's that.

[lo_Opy]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

No one has said that she deserved to die.

However, the chances of her dying from getting hit with the taser are probably less in that situation than you believe. I'd put the chances of her dying from that cop jumping on her as higher than what happened. If everyone who fell down without muscle control onto concrete died from serious brain injuries from the impact then a large majority of fights ending with a knockout would end this way. It's just not that common. I seriously doubt that he had any intention of causing serious or fatal harm to her when he made the decision to use his taser against her. There's a chance, but there's a chance he would have gotten in a car wreck transporting her also. There's a chance she would have gotten injured during the arrest. There's a chance she would have gotten injured during booking, etc, etc. None of those things are done with the INTENTION of causing serious bodily harm or death to the suspect but it can happen. Does that just mean we should have the police do anything?

The point is that the taser wasn't even remotely necessary in that situation, which unfortunately caused her to hit her head and die. If that cop wasn't so fucking lazy and out of shape the girl would be in jail instead of dead right now. Based on the video you clearly see the cop is in range of just reaching out and atleast attempting to grab her, which he didn't even do, he just went straight for the taser.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Do you have a figure - aside from anecdotal experience - to quantify that TBI from head injury in a fall is an uncommon occurrence, Dave?

Nope. It's the leading cause of TBIs but that can range from minor/mild all the way up to this. I haven't seen (nor have I ever searched for) any studies on major/fatal TBIs caused durign the fall of an unconsious person.

I just did a quick google search and in general there are 2 million TBIs in the US per year. 300,000 severe enough to require hospitalization. About 99,000 of those result in long term injuries. 56,000 of those result in death. Of those that require hospitalization about half (49%) are due to motor vehicle accidents.

So if we assume those statistics are accurate, TBIs that are serious enough to result in hospitalization are about 15% of the total TBIs, about 7.3% from auto accidents. That, in theory, leaves a 7.7% chance of a TBI being serious enough to require hospitalization with a cause other than a motor accident. If we look at fatal TBIs it's 2.8% of total TBIs. If we assume that same 49% hospitalization rates apply to fatal TBIs (and this is a very bad assumption since shootings I would guess have a higher lethality rate than auto accidents/other incidents, and bad because auto accidents likely have a higher lethality rate than fights, etc but again this part is all an assumption) we are at 1.43% chance of something besides an auto accident causing a fatal TBI. Or about 28,600 fatal TBIs a year by means other than auto accidents.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by lo_Opy

The point is that the taser wasn't even remotely necessary in that situation, which unfortunately caused her to hit her head and die. If that cop wasn't so fucking lazy and out of shape the girl would be in jail instead of dead right now. Based on the video you clearly see the cop is in range of just reaching out and atleast attempting to grab her, which he didn't even do, he just went straight for the taser.

I actually don't disagree with this.

Part of my point is that it's easy to watch just a bit of video and declare how right we are and how wrong the officer is and yet none of us were there, saw what happened before, or knew the exact situation at that moment in time. The point about running into traffic is a clear point, it was stated in here as a joke, yet I would NEVER cross that road unless I was actually trying to kill myself. Sure I'd probably make it but...

[lo_Opy]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I actually don't disagree with this.

Part of my point is that it's easy to watch just a bit of video and declare how right we are and how wrong the officer is and yet none of us were there, saw what happened before, or knew the exact situation at that moment in time. The point about running into traffic is a clear point, it was stated in here as a joke, yet I would NEVER cross that road unless I was actually trying to kill myself. Sure I'd probably make it but...

Yea I agree on the first part, that is why i put "based on the video".

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by OrangeJuleas

I know you don't want to play the "what if" game, but what if that girl that did two hit and runs and was subsequently tased and killed was one of your children, your brother or sister, or girlfriend/wife? It is easy to categorize people who commit crimes as less than human because we don't know anything about them other than the fact that they committed a crime. Put the face and soul of someone you care about to this individual and then see if you feel the same way.

FWIW, I have had many friends in rehab, friends who've gone to jail, family that has done some pretty bad things, and while I believe they deserved their punishment, none have deserved to die for what they've done.

If a family member was a degenerate...I would be sad...but I would understand.

Just because I care about someone...it does not give them a free pass.

Many people cannot admit that their friends/loved ones can do bad things.

I am not one of those people.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Do you have a figure - aside from anecdotal experience - to quantify that TBI from head injury in a fall is an uncommon occurrence, Dave?

If he wanted to hurt/kill her...he would have shot her.

I work in CT at a trauma center...

Falling onto concrete can cause head injuries very easily. Cannot dismiss that.

But she put herself in that situation.

I have seen people get those same injuries from being tackled as well.

My advice...don't commit crimes and get arrested and then attempt to flee.

I view criminals like her as a danger to society in general...not unlike a dog with rabies. Yes..we are actually better off without those people roaming the streets (jail or otherwise)

[Byebye]

How many would have a different attitude if you were the one she hit and run(hit your FR-S/BRZ) and you called the cops?

[madoka]

1. She stole a car.

2. She went around driving while impaired (allegedly drugs).

3. She committed a hit and run.

4. An hour later, she committed another hit and run.

5. She was arrested and ran from the police station while cuffed.

6. Cop should not have tased her as it was against policy in that situation.

Mistakes were made on both sides.

[Kelbyat07]

I like how the cop was asking why she was stupid, when he should be asking that to himself. He was literally right behind her, and the chick was handcuffed, what could she possibly do?

Once again, more reasons for me to hate the cops, but then again i am a teenager.