FlexFuel and Facts

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by brilthor

If I wanted to deliberately dilute what I get from the e85 pump down to the minimum the car needs for safely achieving maximum power would it be possible to dilute it with 87 (I assume the 15% gas already in the mix from the pump isn't premium to start with) and if so does that change the % mix which is safe to run without risk of knock?

I've been thinking about this myself. Looking at it from an economic standpoint, why can't you blend 87 octane gasoline with 100 and something octane E85 and come up with 93 octane? Seems like at a certain formulation the desired results could be achieved.
The difference in price between 87 oct and 93 oct can be as much as .50 cents or more per gallon. And E85 is usually cheaper than 87 oct.
So is there some reason this cannot be done?


Shiv?

[EAGLE5]

e85 r+m = 94-96. It's detonation resistance is effectively higher because the alcohol cools the charge so much. I don't know enough about fuel to know how 87 w/e85 vs 91 w/e85 would compare. Try it and let us know the results.

[WNDSRFR]

http://www.racegas.com/article/11
Here is an interesting article on octane as it relates to alcohol.
I'm going to research this subject some more and I just may try it.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

I've been thinking about this myself. Looking at it from an economic standpoint, why can't you blend 87 octane gasoline with 100 and something octane E85 and come up with 93 octane? Seems like at a certain formulation the desired results could be achieved.
The difference in price between 87 oct and 93 oct can be as much as .50 cents or more per gallon. And E85 is usually cheaper than 87 oct.
So is there some reason this cannot be done?

Shiv?

from an economic standpoint (finance/accounting manager here), it does not make sense to do multiple calculations and try to 'add together' different fuels to save some money. E85 is significantly more ethanol than regular 93. The resulting product will not be the same as E10 93 and will not act like E10 93.

Fuel distributors have a much more consistent method of targeting r+m than you, the consumer, will at the pump. Even with "octane gauges" and methods to try and see what exactly you're putting in. Ethanol in the U.S. is notoriously varied in E%- you'd have to mix together the fuel in your tank AFTER filling up to determine what the exact mix is, as the fuel tank underneath you is very large and a reading from the start of fill-up can be drastically different than the end of fill-up, especially if the E85 tank is not regularly filled up.

Also- how much is your time worth to you?

[shiro]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

http://www.racegas.com/article/11
Here is an interesting article on octane as it relates to alcohol.
I'm going to research this subject some more and I just may try it.

Great article and thanks for the share. The article exactly hits the same line of thinking I have, as well as what Koa is stating.


One method I was thinking (but didn't see if the other pages of this thread mentioned it) is the yellow octane number at the pump, regardless if you have 0%-10% added ethanol, should be that Anti-Knock Index (AKI) rating. However, after reading the article from WNDSRFR it would seem that even the yellow AKI number on the pumps might actually be lower than stated (if they have ethanol added). Overall, why post a number that isn't accurate? The popularity of tuner cars has raised over the last decade. If you are going to pay the extra $.60-$1.00/gal than you should be getting a premium product...but that's the downside to our economy. We cut corners to make an extra buck. lol

[blkdmnd]

So from now on if I’m flying around turns at prudent speed I can just tell the police officer that I’m trying to fix my fuel trims by mixing up the 93 I just put in there with the e85 and he’ll probably let me off right?

[Alien87]

I'm a bit lost, so is it good to get the oft only or is better to get flex fuel kit and oft? Im currently trying to run on e-85, but would like to have the option to run normal fuel still since im not sure how many gas stations have e-85. I have an frs, if anyone can tell me what exactly i need to buy to buy for this please lmk, i know i can do a search, and i have, but there's so many mixed answers cause not everyone wants the same thing.

[Lantanafrs2]

Keep it simple. Don't put sides on a round wheel.

[guybo]

Originally Posted by Alien87

I'm a bit lost, so is it good to get the oft only or is better to get flex fuel kit and oft? Im currently trying to run on e-85, but would like to have the option to run normal fuel still since im not sure how many gas stations have e-85. I have an frs, if anyone can tell me what exactly i need to buy to buy for this please lmk, i know i can do a search, and i have, but there's so many mixed answers cause not everyone wants the same thing.

A FFK will protect you if you get a tank of straight gas or straight ethanol by some weird chance. It'll also make it very convenient to use regular gas at any time without a re-tune. No-brainer option since anyone can get one installed and use any gas and you can set it up and go. Those are the reasons I gather from this thread to get a FFK vs. just converting over to E85.

Cons- expense and added hardware (that a dealership will see.... just sayin') and tapping into your fuel system.



You can run E85 all the time with nothing more than a tune, it's pretty safe to forgo the FFK if you're not a knucklehead. Watch your fuel trims after you fill up and you'll see if you got some bad E85. No tapping the fuel system, no extra hardware, it's the least expensive of the options (at least the outlay is less).

Cons- To switch back to regular ole' gas, you have to run the tank all the way down and do the switch which takes time. No safety net for bad gas or knuckleheadery. IMHO this is the more technical option since you have to know more about your car and fueling- which may be a bad thing for some.

[Alien87]

I see, but when you say, the dealer ship will see, that means it will stop any kind of warranty right?
Yeah i think I'd rather spend a bit more and go flex fuel especially cause Ive seen how hard it is to start the cars in the winter when running e85. But can you or anyone give any links as to what exactly I need to buy? I've seen different kits, or parts, but I want to know which one I should buy and what parts i need. I think delicious tuning has it but I just don't wanna buy the wrong stuff.

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by Alien87

I see, but when you say, the dealer ship will see, that means it will stop any kind of warranty right?
Yeah i think I'd rather spend a bit more and go flex fuel especially cause Ive seen how hard it is to start the cars in the winter when running e85. But can you or anyone give any links as to what exactly I need to buy? I've seen different kits, or parts, but I want to know which one I should buy and what parts i need. I think delicious tuning has it but I just don't wanna buy the wrong stuff.

Can’t go wrong with Delicious... had mine for 2 years now will all kinds of different ethanol %s, normal fuel, and everything in between.

[Alien87]

is it the one that says "BRZ/FRS/86 FLEX FUEL BLUETOOTH KIT MK1"?

$595?

[reeves]

Originally Posted by Alien87

is it the one that says "BRZ/FRS/86 FLEX FUEL BLUETOOTH KIT MK1"?

$595?

That looks like the right one.
I would email/call them before buying just to make sure though.

[18BRZLtd]

This is very logical to me...all of these vehicles and many other more modern ones have sensors that help stock hardware calculate what’s going on with fuel/oxygen/etc. I understand a conversion if you intend to to run on pure e-85 100% of the time and you have forced induction. Very helpful post!