2017 BRZ Vs. 2005 Boxter S Vs. 2016 WRX Vs……

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

Again, top journals like Autocar and EVO always comment on this fact and praise the manufacturers decision to go against the trend and do it that way. Autocar magazine goes as far as giving this car a 5 star rating which is a super rare rating. This magazine is the oldest car magazine and in my opinion one of the best if not the best. They know their stuff.

Check the video I posted above. It is true that they praise this decision, but after a while the journalist starts laughing. The BRZ slides so much that is starts to be ridiculous. The serious comparison is done afterwards between the Alfa and the Cayman. Thankfully for the more grown-up drivers it is easy to change tires and have more grip. Finally, I agree that the best car value for money is still the Cayman.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Check the video I posted above. It is true that they praise this decision, but after a while the journalist starts laughing. The BRZ slides so much that is starts to be ridiculous. The serious comparison is done afterwards between the Alfa and the Cayman. Thankfully for the more grown-up drivers it is easy to change tires and have more grip. Finally, I agree that the best car value for money is still the Cayman.

In that video you posted, it seemed clear to me they were laughing with joy (much as I am when I'm driving it).

@4:14 he clearly envyed the 86 driver and said things in the line of: "something tells me he's having more fun than I am" and "I want to be in that car" (referencing FT86)

@5:20 he praises the car for "having not much grip at all" and that being a part of the balance of the car. So again, a top journal and a top journalist praising that car with those tires.

Sorry man, I don't mean to troll you or anything like that, I don't do that, but honestly you just posted a video proves the exact opposite of what you're saying. If I were trying to prove my point I would've posted that video you posted.


Also, that video is not the only one out there proving this point either. There's another one by Chris Harris who's a big fan of the car along with it's low grip tires

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4&t=31s"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4&t=31s[/ame]


And here's another one by EVO where again the reviewer was clearly stating and enjoying the low grip tires

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC4xAArXCTY&t=431s"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC4xAArXCTY&t=431s[/ame]


In the end of the day, if you want to race for time, than yeah, a tire swap will be easy and probably even cheaper than the OEM. And if you just want to have fun than the OEMs work great for me. It's a win win situation and everyone should be happy. Good luck.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

Sorry man, I don't mean to troll you or anything like that, I don't do that, but honestly you just posted a video proves the exact opposite of what you're saying. If I were trying to prove my point I would've posted that video you posted.

It is what you like to see. You want to see this and it is fine with me. Fact is that the real comparison was made in the end between the two cars (Alfa & Porsche). The other driver with the BRZ was left behind playing with his little toy ... lol

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

Also, that video is not the only one out there proving this point either. There's another one by Chris Harris who's a big fan of the car along with it's low grip tires

Chris Harris? The one who made this video about low grip tires?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPh90yNX-mY"]The Mercedes C63 AMG Experiment - /CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]


Let's be a bit serious. He even makes the final statement at 6:46 that "on the street fun is better than speed". So let's forget about safe cars and let's provide cars that just slide on public roads. Such journalists should not be allowed to post this bs.


Happy New Year and I am going back (again) to sleep.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It is what you like to see. You want to see this and it is fine with me. Fact is that the real comparison was made in the end between the two cars (Alfa & Porsche). The other driver with the BRZ was left behind playing with his little toy ... lol

no, fact is, that video was about the Alfa 4C when it was newly launched and what what are its main rivals. I know that for a fact cause I watched that video when it was first released. Of course the Cayman is the real lival for the 4C. The FT86 is in a much much cheaper category. That's what the reviewer meant at the end when he said it's between the Cayman and the 4C. He didn't mean the FT86 was left behind playing like a little toy.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Chris Harris? The one who made this video about low grip tires?

I like that video :P

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Let's be a bit serious. He even makes the final statement at 6:46 that "on the street fun is better than speed". So let's forget about safe cars and let's provide cars that just slide on public roads. Such journalists should not be allowed to post this bs.

You're more than welcome to setup your own YouTube channel and challange him. But as it stands, Chirs Harris happens to be among the highest rated car journalists out there period.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Happy New Year and I am going back (again) to sleep.

Happy New Year to you too . lighten up man it's a big world and plenty of fun for everyone. You have it your way and others will have it theirs. My office-mate loves his bicycle and I could never get him drawn into any car chats.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

So let's forget about safe cars and let's provide cars that just slide on public roads. Such journalists should not be allowed to post this bs.

I bet you're a blast at parties.

Is it really that much safer to strap ultra sticky tires to 400hp cars and give the driver the illusion of control until the traction finally breaks and all hell sets loose?

Maybe if people weren't spoiled by amazing tires and electronic nannies they would know how to actually drive their car and correctly react during emergency situations.

[dowroa]

So, OP, thank you for your feedback.

Also, this conversation has gotten really weird and sounds like bench racers.

Strictly speaking from personal experience, when you add grippy tires to a stock suspension, it is going to have A LOT more dynamic chassis movement. Also, it is going to have a lot more grip IF it doesn't loose it all to dynamic camber changes (depends on the car).

For this platform (or almost all MacPherson in my experience) you either need to add A LOT of static negative camber (and expect a lot of body motion as in D- or C-stock autoX with reduced straight line braking) or increase the roll stiffness. I have always gone for the latter, as I HATE mis-worn tires that I am paying more for.

Also, going back to smaller/less sticky tires depending on your needs and driving are fine. Hell, the 02-07 WRXes always came on 205 RE92s. They were the BANE of performance driving on those cars. I think WRX and STi drivers who now have 17x8 wheels and stickier tires don't really realize how it used to be (to save money, give the car overhead to "improve" and improved fuel econ).

Still, don't delude yourself into thinking this platform doesn't perform better on 255 RE-71Rs -- it does and can be just as much "fun" , if not more so. If you think not, just get into an STX or DS/CS car at an autoX for a ride along and see for yourself.

With that stated, not many people can drive. Even `fast` people at autoXes have bad driving habits and get a ton of tickets on the road (dumb, imho). That is never going to change.

Drive what you enjoy with a purpose and focus. As long as you are doing that, paying attention, and attempting to learn, it doesn't matter how "good" you are. I would rather see "awake" drivers behind the wheel instead of those who are "just there".

Thanks for your feedback, OP! In Aug this year (2018), I will pounce!

- brian

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Maybe if people weren't spoiled by amazing tires and electronic nannies they would know how to actually drive their car and correctly react during emergency situations.

Correct. Sticky tires provide a false sense of security to those that can't drive. By can't drive I'm referring to those that have poor car control which is most drivers. Can you determine oversteer from understeer and can you properly correct those things at speed? Probably not. That's the basic stuff.....

[WolfpackS2k]

Congratulations on your purchase!

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Congratulations on your purchase!

Thanks man

So far it's working out great for me. I was a little bit bothered by having to use a manual transmission again after coming from an AT for awhile. But I've gotten use to it and I appreciate the extra level of connectivity it provides. The MT of the BRZ is also actually engaging to use so you even end up changing gears even when you don't even remotely need to just for the fun of dong so.

Good stuff so far.. happy with my purchase..

[Xxyion]

As a current owner of a BRZ and a Focus ST (used to have a Fiesta ST) and the girlfriend owning a 2017 MX-5, i agree spot on with everything you said. I even fully agree with you on the MX-5 shifting feel and interior.

The Focus is my current daily and god that thing is so boring. Like it was kinda fun when i first got it, really torquey and you could feel the turbo working once you build some boost in first gear. But once you get over the "oooh it feels fast" feeling, you realize that the handling is just numb, Barely any response from the wheel when i turn and feels more like an econobox than a sports car.

[rennlistuser3]

Originally Posted by Xxyion

As a current owner of a BRZ and a Focus ST (used to have a Fiesta ST) and the girlfriend owning a 2017 MX-5, i agree spot on with everything you said. I even fully agree with you on the MX-5 shifting feel and interior.

The Focus is my current daily and god that thing is so boring. Like it was kinda fun when i first got it, really torquey and you could feel the turbo working once you build some boost in first gear. But once you get over the "oooh it feels fast" feeling, you realize that the handling is just numb, Barely any response from the wheel when i turn and feels more like an econobox than a sports car.

Thanks for posting this! I felt like I was going crazy with how I percieved the Focus ST as being very dull to drive. It's the non-communicative nature of the car, it makes you feel very isolated.

Good to know others out there agree with me on car stuff

[Xxyion]

Originally Posted by rennlistuser3

Thanks for posting this! I felt like I was going crazy with how I percieved the Focus ST as being very dull to drive. It's the non-communicative nature of the car, it makes you feel very isolated.

Good to know others out there agree with me on car stuff

Haha yeah for sure man. I actually drove a WRX today and a lot of what you said i agree with as well. Weird power band (the focus felt better tbh) but the car is pretty fast. Just weird how it falls flat on its face right after 5k RPM. Like zero warning then bam...no power.Steering is better than the Focus, but still not as good as the BRZ. i think thats what you get when you take an econobox and then modify it to be a sports car vs building a sports car from the ground up.

[spralwers]

Your experience comparing with the Boxster S is quite similar to mine with a 987.1 Cayman, especially with the gearing. Even though the engine puts out ~40 more peak hp than the BRZ and will just have more power everywhere under the curve thanks to +2 cylinders, the BRZ felt like it had more acceleration when driving it like a daily driver around town (no WOT, shifting below 4k rpm). BRZ felt faster immediately off the line too, but then eventually the greater power of the Cayman overpowers the really tall gearing.


The BRZ has a more go karty suspension, which helps add to the sensation of speed at low speeds. I have slight junkie tendencies where the car needs to feel fast and stimulating almost always (I love go karting for this reason) and these Japanese cars built for small Japanese roads are way more fun than German cars built for the autobahn in that specific department. My driving environment is more similar to Japan than it is Germany, so it's not just the BRZ - all those lower HP, shorter geared, rougher suspension Japanese cars hit the right spot for stimulation. I visited Japan about a year ago, and immediately after seeing their roads, everything about their car design just clicked.

[nikitopo]

Strangely Japanese think that the European suspensions are more advanced and mature than their own "rougher" designs. Not a coincidence that Sti is racing with a Bilstein suspension on their WRX, a Sachs suspension on their BRZ GT300 and all the new 86/BRZ performance versions have a Sachs suspension too.