OEM Big Brake Kit

[BlueDubbinTDI]

Damn that seems like a steal!

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Did you do anything to the rear brakes? If not, do you feel like the brake bias has shifted forward with the much more capable front brakes?

What I like about the essex kit is that it adds a ton of heat capacity but isn't really any larger nor does it have any drastic increase in brake torque. It's also lighter than stock (some of which is rotational unsprung, the rest is just unsprung weight) by a pretty good margin. I've cracked a rotor once so far but I had to really try and do the wost possible things you can do to a car at the track to do so.

So no bias shift at all that I've noticed. I run equal pads front and rear, all aids off/etc. I can beat on it for 45-60 minutes during Chin's happy hours and with the right pads (Currenly using some CL pads, RC6 specifically) and the brakes are consistent from the first lap to the last lap.

Going to be trying Project Mu 999 pads all around on April 6th at Sebring and I expect to like those as well.

The best part is that the pads are cheaper than the same pad in the OEM size up front and are thicker, last longer (due to heat removal and the thicker puck) and the rotors last longer.

A BBK isn't likely to be an economical choice for those who rarely track their cars (it won't be really) but for those that do it will pay itself off over a few seasons... plus the confidence I have in the brakes compared to the stock setup almost makes it worth it by itself.

Now the Essex stuff isn't the best street car brakes around. They don't have anti rattle provisions and they tend to squeal like a pig with every pad I've used but that doesn't matter much to me anyways.. none of my cars have street pads (never know which I'll decide to track) so they all make some noise. :shrug:

[rice_classic]

"Find a need, Fill a need"

I like this for the occasional track day person, even a dedicated track day person. I like the OEM'ness of it and the price of it. I think it's great for the person who doesn't want to drop major coin on BBK and likes the OEM feel/look of the car.

I think a brake pad that is a "compromise pad" (street & track) will work better with this setup vs OEM due to a larger heat sink. Even if you used it with the OEM pads, I bet they'd last a few more laps because the of greater cooling capacity (so maybe 5 laps instead of 3). The other thing I like is that by bringing the heat sink further away from the hub it transfers less braking heat into the wheel bearing and this makes bearings happy.

Finally, it fills up the wheel space a bit more so the aesthetics are improved while still appearing it came from the factory that way.

The only CON I see is the price. It's simply a bracket and a rotor. But hey, until there's 5-10 others doing the same thing why lower the price?

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

... nor does it have any drastic increase in brake torque.

Does it not? I would have thought a 4 opposed piston caliper would have a fair amount more clamping force than a 2 piston sliding caliper.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Does it not? I would have thought a 4 opposed piston caliper would have a fair amount more clamping force than a 2 piston sliding caliper.

Piston area and line pressure determine that. The OEM calipers actually produce more torque per given line pressure than the WRX 4 pot fixed calipers, unless they changed the piston sizes. I honestly never measure the OEM ones but that was true with the WRX a few years ago.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

"Find a need, Fill a need"

I like this for the occasional track day person, even a dedicated track day person. I like the OEM'ness of it and the price of it. I think it's great for the person who doesn't want to drop major coin on BBK and likes the OEM feel/look of the car.

I think a brake pad that is a "compromise pad" (street & track) will work better with this setup vs OEM due to a larger heat sink. Even if you used it with the OEM pads, I bet they'd last a few more laps because the of greater cooling capacity (so maybe 5 laps instead of 3). The other thing I like is that by bringing the heat sink further away from the hub it transfers less braking heat into the wheel bearing and this makes bearings happy.

Finally, it fills up the wheel space a bit more so the aesthetics are improved while still appearing it came from the factory that way.

The only CON I see is the price. It's simply a bracket and a rotor. But hey, until there's 5-10 others doing the same thing why lower the price?

As mentioned above by Orbital I think, the newer Legacy GT front brakes should bolt on and are a better solution. Different caliper so pad choice may suffer that's the only con I can think of. Thick rotors (30mm) to boot so cooling should be improved due to the larger vents.

I say that having never actually held the legacy bits in my hands though.. I just went to Essex instead.

[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Does it not? I would have thought a 4 opposed piston caliper would have a fair amount more clamping force than a 2 piston sliding caliper.

That's a common misconception, but you have to measure the surface area of pistons on only one side. It has to do with how pressure is applied and measured. Look at it this way... With a four piston caliper, each piston is matched by it's opposing piston, so the fluid pressure of the system is the same on each side, it is matched and equalized, not added. With a one-sided caliper, the piston(s) push against a bracket, which has to push back with equal force.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by wheelhaus

That's a common misconception, but you have to measure the surface area of pistons on only one side. It has to do with how pressure is applied and measured. Look at it this way... With a four piston caliper, each piston is matched by it's opposing piston, so the fluid pressure of the system is the same on each side, it is matched and equalized, not added. With a one-sided caliper, the piston(s) push against a bracket, which has to push back with equal force.

This. Instead of measuring the surface area on one side I just multiple the slider by 2, same end result though

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Many of us here understand this. His post was in response to those who think a BBK is needed for "stopping power" and the guy who mentioned that the larger rotors with stock caliper would be enough for the street drivers.

Smaller brakes on this car would be enough for street use.

Too much front bias is just as bad. No rotation so "safer" (if you consider running into something head on safer) but ABS activation earlier than needed reducing overall effectiveness of the braking system. Ideally all four should lock at the same time in a straight line.

Yeah, ABS is going to cover up any balance issues (if you're doing the pedal dance I think it turns all the aides off). All four should lock at the same time, but it's theoretically impossible because of weight transfer.


Personally I've been curious if the bolt on WRX setup is worse as the force at the pads is less but it's a larger rotor... I'll admit I like the look of the brembos vs the sliding caliper.

[Dave-ROR]

Remove abs fuse

And a car brakes worse in abs so to keep it at the edge with more front bias means the rears are doing less. ABS on the track isn't really a goal.

[86viper]

Originally Posted by wparsons

These cars don't need more braking power, with better pads you can easily lock up even the stickiest of tires with the stock size rotors and stock calipers.

If you need more thermal capacity, or want easier to change pads (or less cost in the long term if you track a lot), then a BBK can help, but it won't make you stop any faster if you can already engage ABS.

I don't even track my car much and this just isn't true.

A day in the hills driving with a bunch of supercars and trying to pull it up from 100+mph multiple times all i got was fade.

Bigger brakes with more thermal area might not make you stop any faster in a single stop, but it will on the 2nd and more, which is what happens on the street every weekend.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by 86viper

I don't even track my car much and this just isn't true.

A day in the hills driving with a bunch of supercars and trying to pull it up from 100+mph multiple times all i got was fade.

Bigger brakes with more thermal area might not make you stop any faster in a single stop, but it will on the 2nd and more, which is what happens on the street every weekend.

Fluid or pad fade? Both are fixable without a bbk. What he said was 100% accurate.

As for your driving maybe stop driving like an idiot? 100+mph on the street every weekend is just asking for it.

[86viper]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Fluid or pad fade? Both are fixable without a bbk. What he said was 100% accurate.

As for your driving maybe stop driving like an idiot? 100+mph on the street every weekend is just asking for it.

My driving is not important here. Nor do you know the conditions or reasons or places i was. As i have more power than stock the time spent getting to those speeds is less. Its not every weekend obviously as well. Im not talking race style, but after 3 stops in a few mins the brakes were fading badly.

Anyways, it is neither the fluid boiling or the pads. The aftermarket pads are at the thermal limits as are the stock rotors.

The OEM brakes even with upgraded pads and lines are just not upto spirited street driving and are defiantly not upto track work.

Does the average person need a 6 piston 350mm Brembo kit? Of course not. Do i even need that? Probably not. But something in between would be nice.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Piston area and line pressure determine that. The OEM calipers actually produce more torque per given line pressure than the WRX 4 pot fixed calipers, unless they changed the piston sizes. I honestly never measure the OEM ones but that was true with the WRX a few years ago.

Same pistons in our 2 pots as their 2 pots - we have the same caliper (albeit with a different bleeder port orientation) and rotor as they do.