Report: Toyota 86 / FR-S Sedan still coming (with 100mm longer wheelbase)

[YMAA]

Originally Posted by regal

Ours is just unique in it was sports car chassis first rather than the other way around.

But Subaru does hold all the cards in this. I mean the WRX is just not going to lose sales to this sedan, to most buyers the WrX is superior in everything but an occasional curvy road . So Subaru doesn't need this sedan at all.

Only thing Subaru needs it to get out from under Toyotas thumb so they can sell the BRZ with their FA20T.

So there may be a deal struck where Toyota gets the Sedan and Subaru gets the coupe.

I agree that Subaru doesn't need another performance sedan, but I also can't see Toyota giving up on the 86 coupe that easily. Toyota's lineup needs an inexpensive, RWD, 2-door sports car.

The closest thing Toyota offers now besides the 86 is Scion's tC - which has isn't as quick or nimble and is FWD - which automatically puts the cars in different leagues in terms of how rewarding they are to drive. Lexus has sporty cars but they're priced too high above the 86.

[regal]

Originally Posted by YMAA

I agree that Subaru doesn't need another performance sedan, but I also can't see Toyota giving up on the 86 coupe that easily. Toyota's lineup needs an inexpensive, RWD, 2-door sports car.

The closest thing Toyota offers now besides the 86 is Scion's tC - which has isn't as quick or nimble and is FWD - which automatically puts the cars in different leagues in terms of how rewarding they are to drive. Lexus has sporty cars but they're priced too high above the 86.

I would say in the states Scion needs the frs.

I agree that Toyota would benefit from an RWD 2-door Toyota sports car . But I'm sure they see a lot more $ signs with the sedan.

They have the planned higher volume smaller <$20k rwd concept and of course the expensive bmw collaboration. Then they won't need the GT-86.

I'm just curious when the contract turns the BRZ over to Subaru soley? Toyota has to see that at that point they are out of the picture, which is probably why they are making plans for using the platform for a different buyer.

[DougNuts]

Originally Posted by regal

I'm just curious when the contract turns the BRZ over to Subaru soley? Toyota has to see that at that point they are out of the picture, which is probably why they are making plans for using the platform for a different buyer.

I heard it was the opposite, that this was a short term offering for Subaru.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

The problem is that the FRS intrinsically creates its own need for a 4 door option. Did you know that the FRS has a draw from buyers because it has back seats?... It's true.
...

Very true. I would not have purchased the FR-S if it had not had a back seat, even one that is marginally useful. By the way, I don't buy that it is useless, I've used it many times, usually as a "3 seater" with one person behind the passenger seat, but even as a "4 seater" for short rides. No I wouldn't expect someone to ride back there cross country, but for a hop around town it's fine. Of course it probably helps that I'm 5'7" on a good day.

Had there been a 4-door version of it that drove the same (and most likely had a larger engine) but look basically the same, I would have considered it.

And if I recall the "heritage" of the GT86, the AE86, was a 5th generation Corolla.

If the 4 door FRS was renamed a Toyota Corolla Sport. I would still buy it, I mean hey, at least I'd own a Toyota right?

That would have worked me.

[daiheadjai]

Call it Corolla SR5 or GTS again...
Those hatchback chops remind me of the Altezza Gita/IS300 Sportcross.

This is a good thing.

[fr-sTony]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Meh, manufacturers like to have similar styling cues across their models, helps make them easily identifiable, it seems like the LFA is the baseline for Toyota's near term styling.

Yes Perhaps you are right. I was wrong for not looking at the new 2014 Corolla S (or any of the new Corollas) as the new sporty 4-door that is a cheap alternative to the micro back-seated twins. Looks kinda Lexusy in the front.
I'm wondering if it is what was being hinted at? Maybe not because it is front-wheel drive and has less power. But the models range from 2820-2865lbs. and gets 215/45/17s and is less expensive though than a ZN6 bodied car.
Wow I just had a thought(ouch,lol). Maybe they could make a 2-door(or 4-door)rear-wheel drive Corolla in 2015? That would fit the bill precisely but still cost less. or not...

[fr-sTony]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

I hear you. There were rumors of just such a vehicle 3 years ago. They called it a Baby FT-86 and it was going to be closer to the $20k mark. It is supposedly still in the works. I never heard whether it was going to be a roadster or a coupe though. The prototype was based on a Daihatsu hatch but they showed a Roadster at TAS.

Here's one of the latest rumors on it.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28508

Yes with it's 106.2 inch wheelbase, the new 2014 corolla is the rumored 4-door car in the original post. But with front-wheel drive...

[Hachiroku]

And another report of a possible FR-S / BRZ sedan.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/scio...b-in-2015.html

Published: 10/18/2013

TORRANCE, California — Scion is expected to introduce a redesigned xB hatchback in 2015 and is considering the development of a sporty four-door sedan based on the FR-S coupe, Edmunds has learned.

A key question is whether Subaru, which co-developed the FR-S with Toyota, will agree to the deal, says an industry source familiar with Scion's product program.

Scion has been "pushing hard for a sedan variant of the FR-S, but Subaru has been dragging its heels on it," said a source who asked not to be identified. Subaru's version of the coupe is the BRZ.

The rear-drive FR-S and BRZ, 2+2 coupes that went on sale here in 2012, have been praised by the automotive press. The vehicle is marketed as the FR-S by Scion in the United States and by Toyota as the 86, GT86 and FT86 in other regions of the world.

Scion wants to sell the sedan version here beginning in 2016, the source said, but Toyota's other global regions likely would have to buy into the proposal to make a business case.

In the meantime, Scion's next new model will arrive sooner.

"In the next two calendar years, we will have a blend of both upgrades to the products we have in the market and at least one new model," Scion's Doug Murtha told Edmunds in a phone interview. The new model will arrive in "calendar year 2015, and it will be either model year 2015 or 2016. It will certainly not be a 2017 model."

Murtha is vice president of Toyota Motor Sales' Scion Division.

Earlier this month, a Toyota executive told Edmunds that the automaker was "looking at a three-year window on a couple of products that we hope come to fruition." The implication was the next redesigned Scion model would not appear until the 2017 model year. In addition, the implication was that little would be done to alter current Scion models until redesigns appear.

"I think we are going to do some different things with packages on the existing models, special editions," Murtha said. "As you know Scion has a history of doing some Release Series products, kind of limited runs of upgrades and special content."

In addition to the FR-S and xB, Scion markets the iQ three-door hatchback, tC coupe and xD five-door hatchback.

Neither Murtha nor the Toyota executive would say what new models or redesigns are planned for the Scion lineup in the coming years. Asked if the xB or the xD will be replaced in 2015, Murtha said "they are the logical candidates."

However, the industry source told Edmunds the xB is the vehicle that will be redesigned, arriving in 2015. Scion is looking at two different five-door hatchbacks that will be sold in the Japanese market, one smaller than the other model. Both cars have been engineered to meet U.S safety and emission regulations, the source said.

Toyota is expected to reach a decision sometime next spring, the source said.

Edmunds says: Lots of activity going on behind the scenes at Scion.

[Kiske]

Originally Posted by botbs

BRZ 4 door version "hope" will be like the WRX minus the AWD....ahahhaha

This is the main reason I'm not caring for the sedan version of the 86 twins. I just hope more of the concept trickles into the production car.

[killerkid08]

so are they gonna boost the engine in some way, or are they gonna be stuck with a terribly slow sedan. lol.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by killerkid08

so are they gonna boost the engine in some way, or are they gonna be stuck with a terribly slow sedan. lol.

From the very first post in this thread.

In addition to the base model’s Subaru-sourced 147kW 2.0-litre boxer powertrain, the as-yet-unnamed 86 sedan will also offer a next-generation hybrid system.

Strategically differentiated from the Toyota’s current Hybrid Synergy Drive system, the new ‘Hybrid R’ sports hybrid system will incorporate a one-motor parallel drive set-up that generates up to 200kW while achieving 10-15 per cent better fuel economy.

[killerkid08]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

From the very first post in this thread.

Oh. Hybrid, yikes. Meant real power.

[Cesium Rainbow]

I'm a little confused what power Subaru has over Toyota to tell Toyota what Toyotas it can sell. Does it have to do with Subaru's production responsibility? Just a Japanese gentleman's agreement that they both have to agree on everything 86 related?

One point I haven't seen anybody make is that the more model variations there are, the higher sales are, which means more aftermarket support.

Some random data points-
My BRZ is either a 1 or 3 passenger ride. Back seats were necessary, but the kids are only a couple growth spurts away from making that impossible. 4 passengers aint happening, even with me all crammed in front of the controls.

And the Civic as an example--




I'll take the four door any day. Same features, same interior afaik, only 60 lbs heavier from a 2 in wheelbase stretch. Plenty of ppl disagree because coupes are common but the owners of both styles win because of the bigger aftermarket and interchangeability of parts.

[AsianStyle]

Originally Posted by Cesium Rainbow

I'm a little confused what power Subaru has over Toyota to tell Toyota what Toyotas it can sell. Does it have to do with Subaru's production responsibility? Just a Japanese gentleman's agreement that they both have to agree on everything 86 related?

One point I haven't seen anybody make is that the more model variations there are, the higher sales are, which means more aftermarket support.

Some random data points-
My BRZ is either a 1 or 3 passenger ride. Back seats were necessary, but the kids are only a couple growth spurts away from making that impossible. 4 passengers aint happening, even with me all crammed in front of the controls.

And the Civic as an example--




I'll take the four door any day. Same features, same interior afaik, only 60 lbs heavier from a 2 in wheelbase stretch. Plenty of ppl disagree because coupes are common but the owners of both styles win because of the bigger aftermarket and interchangeability of parts.

I fully agree. I'm not sure why people think more options for a platform you love = bad?

I think the wait for Subaru's "ok" is just due to them building it in their factory. I doubt they want to use their factory to build a car solely for Toyota, so if Subaru doesn't want a version for themselves they might deny it.