Failure After J02 Recall - Discussion Threads

[Payload]

I think you guys have some healthy arguments about your thoughts on the "valve spring" recall in which I'm willing to agree with....

[Payload]

I was briefed by a Toyota rep on the phone about a year ago in the management dept. He told me that in 2013 only 10% of the vehicles made in that model year were effected, which I'm sure was a probable estimate.. He was trying to convince me to not even bother thinking my vehicle could be one of the 10% because he claimed that before they would begin work on my car the vin alone would denote if they would even have their mechanics place a hand on it.. I have over 120,000 miles now, and then I had about 107,000 miles when I was on the phone with the rep. I don't know how many vehicles they made in 2013 as scion frs/ brz/gt86 but based on that information the number of defects produced would be fairly marginalized based on the mass production of the thousands of cars they made for that year ;espeacially if he was counting foreign production that just stayed in japan. Or he could have solely been talking about 10 percent of the production that were imported.. I don't know if the car is being produced domestically now in the USA but when those cars first came out, they were all imports until they retired the scion frs trademark emblem and began renaming the scion-frs as a Toyota 86 in the USA.. I think it may have been an assembly line error because they're massed produced products and in the field of engineering they account for probability error, pobabability error is certainly accounted for particularly in industrial engineering dealing with mass production.. There's always probability error dealing with industrial mass production, this maybe why the Toyota manager rep was able to tell me with confidence that he could identify the 10% defective error of vehicles by just looking up the VIN..

So I agree with some of your thoughts about the valve spring recall but not all. It's possible that what I don't agree with maybe correct of why there was a recall in the first place.... I'm going with idea that the production assembly line produced a couple of faulty cars, either by default, absent mindedness of the personal operating the assembly lines of placing parts or perhaps even internal sabotage.. Who exactly knows ???

[Opie]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Hi guys,

So I took mine (2012 GTS) for this (valve spring) work in October - it was at the same time as my 60k service (i was just over 62000km, or around 40k miles). I also had them replace my sparkplugs, knowing I could get that done cheaply as they were removing the engine.

I am super pleased in that my car still had no rattles after the heart surgury, HOWEVER I have noticed a slight difference in its start behavior.

Now when I start the car, immediately after it starts it sounds like its running a diesel engine for a second or 2. Extremely rough. But after than second or two its perfect. In fact everything feel absolutely fine and usual.

So it hasnt really gone away after 3 months. I havent put that many kms on it in that time, but I have booked myself back into the dealer to check it out in a few weeks. Any ideas on what could cause this super rough noise after startup?

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Worn rod bearings rattling until pressurized oil hits them. Your next stop on the fail train will be when that sound doesn't go away.

I would suspect that the timing chains tensioner was not adjusted correctly, the manual says something along the lines of "tension to the tightest notch, then go one notch further"...if not done correctly it causes the slack in the chains to tap when first started.

Never seen it cause any damage, but they'd need to pull the front timing cover to readjust them.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Opie

I would suspect that the timing chains tensioner was not adjusted correctly, the manual says something along the lines of "tension to the tightest notch, then go one notch further"...if not done correctly it causes the slack in the chains to tap when first started.

Never seen it cause any damage, but they'd need to pull the front timing cover to readjust them.

Ah!!! Thanks, Opie!

[DSlayerZX]

so.... I schedules to have the J02 done due to CA regulation.



Just wondering, besides the spark plug, should I also request the Throw out bearing and possibly inspect/replace the clutch?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Payload

I was briefed by a Toyota rep on the phone about a year ago in the management dept. He told me that in 2013 only 10% of the vehicles made in that model year were effected, which I'm sure was a probable estimate.. He was trying to convince me to not even bother thinking my vehicle could be one of the 10% because he claimed that before they would begin work on my car the vin alone would denote if they would even have their mechanics place a hand on it.. I have over 120,000 miles now, and then I had about 107,000 miles when I was on the phone with the rep. I don't know how many vehicles they made in 2013 as scion frs/ brz/gt86 but based on that information the number of defects produced would be fairly marginalized based on the mass production of the thousands of cars they made for that year ;espeacially if he was counting foreign production that just stayed in japan. Or he could have solely been talking about 10 percent of the production that were imported.. I don't know if the car is being produced domestically now in the USA but when those cars first came out, they were all imports until they retired the scion frs trademark emblem and began renaming the scion-frs as a Toyota 86 in the USA.. I think it may have been an assembly line error because they're massed produced products and in the field of engineering they account for probability error, pobabability error is certainly accounted for particularly in industrial engineering dealing with mass production.. There's always probability error dealing with industrial mass production, this maybe why the Toyota manager rep was able to tell me with confidence that he could identify the 10% defective error of vehicles by just looking up the VIN..

So I agree with some of your thoughts about the valve spring recall but not all. It's possible that what I don't agree with maybe correct of why there was a recall in the first place.... I'm going with idea that the production assembly line produced a couple of faulty cars, either by default, absent mindedness of the personal operating the assembly lines of placing parts or perhaps even internal sabotage.. Who exactly knows ???

There were 28,000 FRS/BRZ built in 2013. Going by the vin range they were affected for about 6 to 8 months of production. If we assume a constant monthly production then this gives us between 13,800 and 1,300 possibly affected vehicles. Far more than 10%.When you consider that there were up to 400,000 cars of other models involved (different engine) then it is way les than 10% of the overall recall.

The documented reason for failure was due to improper materials used at the parts manufacturer. This is a required part of the recall information and is substantiated by the various world agencies that issue the recall is is not likely to be false. There is no mystery as to why they recalled it beyond why they felt it was a bigger issue than it seems to be and issued the recall in the first place.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DSlayerZX

so.... I schedules to have the J02 done due to CA regulation.



Just wondering, besides the spark plug, should I also request the Throw out bearing and possibly inspect/replace the clutch?

Replace TOB and inspect clutch.

[DSlayerZX]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Replace TOB and inspect clutch.

Got it. the recall is schedule next week, hopefully my local dealer ship has enough experience with this recall by now that everything will go smoothy.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DSlayerZX

Got it. the recall is schedule next week, hopefully my local dealer ship has enough experience with this recall by now that everything will go smoothy.

There is enough heat on them by now that you are probably pretty safe. If I had to get it done then I would have waited at least this long. Don't want to wait to long either though or they may forget and send the oil change kid to do the work.

[Dave-ROR]

My brain. It hurts.

Now, it's better.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by steve99

One possible explainarion for the spun bearings would be small bits of engine case sealant may be getting into engine as they are pullng it apart, or cleaming off the sealant from reused components. Its also possible that excess sealant is being applied to components during re assembly or the sealant is applied incorrectly or in incorrect areas. This sealand then gets into oil supply galeries and blocks or partialy blocks oil supply to bearings or other components resulting in engine failures.

We have very good documentation of both these examples. Not just in the repaired cars but a small number of failures straight from the factory and never opened before. The sealant must be applied with a certain level of precision or it plugs up vital channels.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

I had the same thing and brought it back after 2k miles and mine was also running very well other than that. They pulled the pan and found sealant residue in the oil pickup, enough that it probably caused mild oil starvation on startup. Once it ran for 2 seconds it was moving enough oil that the clatter went away. It still stayed that way and was bugging me mor and more every day until I just changed the oil again yesterday and now it's back to normal, it still has the Boxer clatter but it doesn't sound like it's eating itself for lunch.

I'd say that you should ask them to pull the pan and take a look then fill with new oil and filter and then change it again in a few thousand km's.

Originally Posted by Opie

I would suspect that the timing chains tensioner was not adjusted correctly, the manual says something along the lines of "tension to the tightest notch, then go one notch further"...if not done correctly it causes the slack in the chains to tap when first started.

Never seen it cause any damage, but they'd need to pull the front timing cover to readjust them.

Thanks fam. Appreciate the responses. I might bring my booking forward, as I was half just thinking it could just be a normal thing on one of these cars after having all that work done.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Opie

I would suspect that the timing chains tensioner was not adjusted correctly, the manual says something along the lines of "tension to the tightest notch, then go one notch further"...if not done correctly it causes the slack in the chains to tap when first started.

Never seen it cause any damage, but they'd need to pull the front timing cover to readjust them.

Oh, and Opie, what kind of time are we talking about?

I'm expecting the dealership to not want to fix it.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

We have very good documentation of both these examples. Not just in the repaired cars but a small number of failures straight from the factory and never opened before. The sealant must be applied with a certain level of precision or it plugs up vital channels.

Has anyone come up with an explanation why this is such a big issue with the FA20, but doesn't seem to be an issue for other Subaru flat 4's? I used to own an STI and don't recall seeing this issue with the EJ engines. Also haven't heard of it being an issue with the FA20DIT either.