Vs. threads....

[TwinscrollGT35R]

What the hell is up with all these FR-S vs _______ threads.

Its a car, its a car built with light weight, rwd and fuel econ. Not big performance. Sure the aftermarket has picked up in a big way. Like no other car I have seen. But its still a 155whp car.

Its not going to tackle the 300+hp cars. Id really start thinking of it in the lines of the Lotus Elise. Build the crap out of the handling and braking. Learn how to carry corner speed. That is going to be a huge key in this car.

You will own a ton of cars at the track. I see it all the time with the miata. That little car has a small under powered motor. Slap some quality handling bits on with brakes and in the right hands everyone is chasing it. And do not go cheap on tires. Seems like everyone goes cheap on tires. A brake system is only as good as the tire holding the ground.

If I had to build up a FR-S today.
Cat-back (so I could hear what rpm at the track)
Brake lines (better pedal feel)
Clutch lines (better pedal feel)
Brake Fluid (higher boil point)
Brake pads (good bite and less fade)
Sway bars (improve handling while decrease weight)
Coil-over (unsprung weight reduction, proper suspension set up)
Wheels and Tires (unsprung weight reduction, larger contact patch)

And get the corner weight set and top it off with a quality wheel alignment.
This car would out handle almost all the cars in these FR-S Vs. _____ threads.

And a quality track day drivers school can go a very long ways!! With that being said.... you would not have to concern yourself with big power.
These cars are not built for drag racing. These are road cars. Polish them up so they car shine.

[ichitaka05]

Most member feels the same... BUT that doesn't mean they won't compare em with other RWD or other sports car.

We had WAY too much comparison thread was made and our boss had it enough, so he made a section just for it.

Simple as that

[Capt Canuck]

Are you new to interweb car forums?
Pretty common construct really, every forum has them. Think everyone knows the value/lack of value in them.
Simple enough to not read them

[Dimman]

Troll traps.

[TwinscrollGT35R]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Most member feels the same... BUT that doesn't mean they won't compare em with other RWD or other sports car.

We had WAY too much comparison thread was made and our boss had it enough, so he made a section just for it.

Simple as that

Its all good. Its good to get people posting. Mine was more to get people thinking about how they can make them or their car better then those "other" cars.

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

Are you new to interweb car forums?
Pretty common construct really, every forum has them. Think everyone knows the value/lack of value in them.
Simple enough to not read them

Yes sir I am new to the internet. What is interweb car forum? Is it like this place here or does it have all the car brands?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by TwinscrollGT35R

What the hell is up with all these FR-S vs _______ threads.

Its a car, its a car built with light weight, rwd and fuel econ. Not big performance. Sure the aftermarket has picked up in a big way. Like no other car I have seen. But its still a 155whp car.

Its not going to tackle the 300+hp cars. Id really start thinking of it in the lines of the Lotus Elise. Build the crap out of the handling and braking. Learn how to carry corner speed. That is going to be a huge key in this car.

You will own a ton of cars at the track. I see it all the time with the miata. That little car has a small under powered motor. Slap some quality handling bits on with brakes and in the right hands everyone is chasing it. And do not go cheap on tires. Seems like everyone goes cheap on tires. A brake system is only as good as the tire holding the ground.

If I had to build up a FR-S today.
Cat-back (so I could hear what rpm at the track)
Brake lines (better pedal feel)
Clutch lines (better pedal feel)
Brake Fluid (higher boil point)
Brake pads (good bite and less fade)
Sway bars (improve handling while decrease weight)
Coil-over (unsprung weight reduction, proper suspension set up)
Wheels and Tires (unsprung weight reduction, larger contact patch)

And get the corner weight set and top it off with a quality wheel alignment.
This car would out handle almost all the cars in these FR-S Vs. _____ threads.

And a quality track day drivers school can go a very long ways!! With that being said.... you would not have to concern yourself with big power.
These cars are not built for drag racing. These are road cars. Polish them up so they car shine.

Wheels and tires wont change the contact patch size. Not worth mentioning anyways. Vs threads are important because people care about cost v benefit

[TwinscrollGT35R]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Wheels and tires wont change the contact patch size.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Wheels and tires wont change the contact patch size. Not worth mentioning anyways. Vs threads are important because people care about cost v benefit

Errr, yes they will? If tires were a flaccid piece of rubber then yea, air pressure would be the only thing that matters, but real tires have thick tread blocks and steel reinforcements everywhere.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by TwinscrollGT35R

If you read the whole post I think ill sound less stupid or maybe youre confusing sizes and shapes

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Errr, yes they will? If tires were a flaccid piece of rubber then yea, air pressure would be the only thing that matters, but real tires have thick tread blocks and steel reinforcements everywhere.

I know they will but it isnt a very significant factor. Its like saying body roll affects weight distribution. I know what tires are made of and you can deform them with your bare hands which, relative to the forces exerted by a car, arent worth mentioning. If a tire was rigid you would have a contact line instead of a patch. The structure of a tire becomes important as you drop in pressure I dont see that as a practical argument

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by fatoni

I know they will but it isnt a very significant factor. Its like saying body roll affects weight distribution. I know what tires are made of and you can deform them with your bare hands which, relative to the forces exerted by a car, arent worth mentioning. If a tire was rigid you would have a contact line instead of a patch. The structure of a tire becomes important as you drop in pressure I dont see that as a practical argument

I dunno, I'm curious to see real data on this. Can you really deform the tread part by hand? I doubt it... The reinforced part of the tread it seems to me would have a more complex interaction with air pressure.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I dunno, I'm curious to see real data on this. Can you really deform the tread part by hand? I doubt it... The reinforced part of the tread it seems to me would have a more complex interaction with air pressure.

the thing is that it is really hard to find real data with a margin of error smaller than what the results would show. things like tread weight and tread wear are always kind of changing. a wider tire will usually be stickier per any given tread wear rating because that should make the contact patch shorter front to back. what that means is that the tire can cool off more quickly so it would last longer. i dont really get it all but i think that tires have been designed to have air pressure be the primary factor at normal situations. as you go up or down in pressure i think that the other variables come in to play

[Midship Runabout]

Such a simple answer is getting waaaaay over complicated. Wider wheels allow wider tires. Wider tires equal larger contact patch. That simple.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Errr, yes they will? If tires were a flaccid piece of rubber then yea, air pressure would be the only thing that matters, but real tires have thick tread blocks and steel reinforcements everywhere.

This is certainly right.

Who would argue that a larger tire doesnt have a larger contact patch? Take a civic with 185s then a 911 with 235s, the naked eye can notice the difference.... driving it is even more impressionable.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Midship Runabout

Such a simple answer is getting waaaaay over complicated. Wider wheels allow wider tires. Wider tires equal larger contact patch. That simple.

I dont think you know what psi means. Explain your reasoning please because I dont follow

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by chulooz

This is certainly right.

Who would argue that a larger tire doesnt have a larger contact patch? Take a civic with 185s then a 911 with 235s, the naked eye can notice the difference.... driving it is even more impressionable.

by its very nature you cant see contact patch. Patch shape will change but the size wont

[DEnd]

Originally Posted by chulooz

This is certainly right.

Who would argue that a larger tire doesnt have a larger contact patch? Take a civic with 185s then a 911 with 235s, the naked eye can notice the difference.... driving it is even more impressionable.

I would but then again I know why I'm talking about.

A tire is basically an air spring, therefore as long as the spring rate is the same ( which may or may not be at different PSIs) then the size of the contact patch will be the same.

[chulooz]

Lol at the guys who don't think larger tires have larger contact patches. Just keep on keepin on I guess.

[TwinscrollGT35R]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Lol at the guys who don't think larger tires have larger contact patches. Just keep on keepin on I guess.

I know. I'm just kicking back watching. Tooo funny

[korinfox]

Originally Posted by chulooz

Lol at the guys who don't think larger tires have larger contact patches. Just keep on keepin on I guess.

Wider tires do not have larger contact patches given the same air pressure is used. Change in tire width only changes the shape of the contact patch, as long as the air pressure in the tire stays the same.
Read this article.

[TwinscrollGT35R]

Lol... how about some real life experience. I can go blog an article on bigfoot. Doesn't mean he is real too.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by TwinscrollGT35R

Lol... how about some real life experience. I can go blog an article on bigfoot. Doesn't mean he is real too.

Please explain what real life experience we can use to evaluate contact patch area.