BRZ vs Chevy SS

[thorlius]

Originally Posted by dwx

Better car is very dependent on what you are doing with the car. There isn't really anything revolutionary about the BRZ or FR-S either. The SS does achieve almost 50/50 weight distribution.

To me the SS is generally a failure because

1) It's auto only and not even with a good automatic
2) The styling sucks
3) It will probably weigh close to 4000 lbs
4) The price will creep up to $38-45K

5) It's no better than the Pontiac G8, which debuted in 2007.

This is basically a G8 GXP with new badging/bumpers, an updated interior, and minus the stick shift.

If they offer a trim level with the Tremec 6060 from the Camaro/C6 and fit in the LSA that the CTS-V and Camaro ZL1 uses, add the dual mode exhaust and mag ride suspension, then you'll have a generation's worth of performance upgrades. But at what price?

Base model should have had LT1.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by dwx

Better car is very dependent on what you are doing with the car. There isn't really anything revolutionary about the BRZ or FR-S either. The SS does achieve almost 50/50 weight distribution.

To me the SS is generally a failure because

1) It's auto only and not even with a good automatic
2) The styling sucks
3) It will probably weigh close to 4000 lbs
4) The price will creep up to $38-45K

I agree on 1-4 it will fail miserably, GM still hasn't learned not to rebadge and re-release already failed vehicles. It will easily hit 4000 lbs.

Originally Posted by Chimpo

I'm not sure I'd bag on the new LT1 engine. Direct injection, variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation (which is why they chose 6.2L displacement so 4 cylinders would be addequate), and estimated 450hp/tq while getting 26mpg highway (my STi never got anywhere near that, and in fact I was only able to get 26mpg using a Cobb eco map while driving like a grandma)... doesn't sound so behind the times to me. And as far as not going DOHC have you seen the heads on a Ford mod-motor? They're huge and on top which is a double whammy of taking up more space (packing) and raising the center of gravity (handling). Yes, push rods are "old tech", but 99.9% of the typical automotive combustion (piston) engines in general are "old tech."

Well they are just now starting to really use cylinder deactivation to get better mpg, other companies have used that tech for years and some companies use smaller engines with small turbos. I think power modes similar to what's on BMW's S1000RR would be better. ECU mode ability wouldn't hurt either, like economy mode and sport mode on the ECU etc.

[shawnperolis]

Almost everything that GM makes is rubbish, I can't imagine this is going to be any different.

[Accurate Race Shop]

it's two very different style of cars for two very different styles of drivers. I love the feeling of old American muscle cars and a screaming V8. For me the appeal of the new cars is how much they kept from the old. For other people they want everything new and the car has to do exactly what they tell it to instantly. They don't like the feel of the old cars. It is all preference the camaro has heritage the FR-S/BRZ has technology and feel I bet both are going to have good sales figures and the drivers of each are not ever going to agree on what is better.

[chuy21]

Originally Posted by SubaruBRZLimited

I agree on 1-4 it will fail miserably, GM still hasn't learned not to rebadge and re-release already failed vehicles. It will easily hit 4000 lbs.




Well they are just now starting to really use cylinder deactivation to get better mpg, other companies have used that tech for years and some companies use smaller engines with small turbos. I think power modes similar to what's on BMW's S1000RR would be better. ECU mode ability wouldn't hurt either, like economy mode and sport mode on the ECU etc.

Just from your posts I can easily see your a GM hater because you use very little facts as to why they "suck". Personally I only like the corvette, CTS-v, and ATS from GM. I would never buy or consider any of their other models. But if your going to talk shit about a company atleast know that GM has been using cylinder deactivation since atleast 2007 (My 2007 Yukon Denali has it). If im not wrong the first company to use cyinder deactivation was Cadilac in the 80's.

[chuy21]

Originally Posted by Tbomb 25

Im pretty sure the Colbalt SS 08+ would spank the twins on any course even though they were fwd they only weighed 2900 pounds and were monster performers...actually the best FWD track performer besides the Renault Trophy...

The 08+ cobalt SS was faster in just about every performance messure compared to the Twins. Faster around a track also. But you can't beat the front engine rear drive layout. And the SS had a shity, horrible, crappy interior/build quality.

[industrial]

You can call me crazy but I'd rather drive my BRZ than a Camaro SS without any reservation. I rented one for a few days last summer and walked away thinking that car was a giant POS. It feels like I'm driving a tank that takes up the entire lane. It just felt soooo BIG and HEAVY. Visibility in that car is about the worst I've ever seen. Steering felt numb. The engine sounded great though and it was fast in straight line.

I imagine this SS will be more of the same. Probably even more numb and large feeling. Even still, the SS will probably be a better overall car since it can hold people and you can see out of the car. It'll make for a good cop car I bet.

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by chuy21

Just from your posts I can easily see your a GM hater because you use very little facts as to why they "suck". Personally I only like the corvette, CTS-v, and ATS from GM. I would never buy or consider any of their other models. But if your going to talk shit about a company atleast know that GM has been using cylinder deactivation since atleast 2007 (My 2007 Yukon Denali has it). If im not wrong the first company to use cyinder deactivation was Cadilac in the 80's.

Yes that's true I hate GM, because they are stupid. They've done nothing but fuck up at every opportunity in the last 10 years. They killed the Trans Am in 2002, their flawed logic being "no one wants a performance car". Sorry if that offends you but it's true GM is in perpetual screw up mode. If they would get their shit together and make lighter cars with the same power as the current ones and file a huge lawsuit to get the government away then from then I might show them some respect, originally they took the bailout but now since the government has slightly more than a 50% ownership they can funnel the money to them so they can keep making substandard cars. I hated Toyota for a long time too, they killed all the performance cars and stuck with shitty economy cars like the Camry and Corolla. Nissan is getting some of my disgust now too since they seem to be scaling back on making performance cars. I have a healthy dislike for some car makers but not all, Toyota has a glimmer of hope since they are coming back to making cars like the 86. I never hated Subaru, they always kept the WRX around, even when it got the pig snout in 2006 and 2007 lol.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by chuy21

The 08+ cobalt SS was faster in just about every performance messure compared to the Twins. Faster around a track also. But you can't beat the front engine rear drive layout. And the SS had a shity, horrible, crappy interior/build quality.

you start off by talking about how the cobalt beats the front engine rear drive layout in just about every category and then say that it just cant beat the front engine rear drive layout. i understand that at some theoretical threshold, fwd stops being effective but cars like the cobalt go to show that it can be a legitimate option well into the ranks of sports car.

[chuy21]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you start off by talking about how the cobalt beats the front engine rear drive layout in just about every category and then say that it just cant beat the front engine rear drive layout. i understand that at some theoretical threshold, fwd stops being effective but cars like the cobalt go to show that it can be a legitimate option well into the ranks of sports car.

I loved my cobalt for its performance but it was still a fwd car which meant it understeered (though not as bad as other fwd cars) and had tons of torque steer once I started tuning it.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by chuy21

I loved my cobalt for its performance but it was still a fwd car which meant it understeered (though not as bad as other fwd cars) and had tons of torque steer once I started tuning it.

every car ive ever driven understeers. i just think its important to discuss feel and perfromance separate

[davidp]

the lsx engines may still use pushrods but in the end the result is a smaller, lighter engine and it's just as good as overhead cams ..

[chuy21]

Originally Posted by fatoni

every car ive ever driven understeers. i just think its important to discuss feel and perfromance separate

Thats true almost all cars have some understeer. To me it performed better but never felt like a sports car.

[Razz]

Originally Posted by SubaruBRZLimited

The problem with GM is they like to use old technology and just refine it over the years but it's still old technology, they got rid of Pontiac, they like to waste money and then ask for a bailout from the government hence the name government motors and the government owns more than 50% of GM. Hell even the new Corvette Stingray uses a pushrod V8 instead of a DOHC engine, they cut corners every chance they get. Honda makes mostly commuter cars with one sporty car thats lost its magic, Nissan is doing pretty much the same. I have a feeling the GTR and 370Z will be shown the door soon.

They paid the government loans back well over a year ago.

Know your facts.