A letter to the Dealership Manager...

[Turbowned]

You have to keep in mind that of the thousands of FR-S/BRZ's sold thus far, less than a hundred cars have documented experience of the CEL/idle issues. It's entirely possible that they have not experienced issues in any of the cars they sold. We have sold at least 6 at my dealership and none have come back with issues, either. Of the hundreds of dealerships in the U.S. it's a crap-shoot as to which ones have had to deal with these issues. Until SoA/TMC acknowledge that there is a problem, there is no problem. You really ought to contact SoA.

[bucket]

Originally Posted by jimbobrand

I honestly wouldn't be scared of buying a new BRZ or FR-S. As others have stated, the CEL and idle issues seem big because the people with issues are making the most noise over it, but those of us who aren't having issues are quiet.

8,500 miles on my car since June 2nd and the only thing on your list I've experienced has been the chirping. Having owned and driven other direct injection cars can tell you that those cars make very similar noises.

Maybe we need to post a huge thread about how frustrated we are that the CEL light never comes on?

[TanMan]

Originally Posted by whitejdm

Totally agree with Ashtray, have consumers deteriorated to the point where they're sending angry letters on products they haven't even purchased yet? People are acting like this car is already off warranty and everyone is getting screwed by the evil dealerships. First run cars almost always have teething problems. 458 Italias are still burning to the ground for crying out loud hahaha

Which part of my letter did you find "angry"? I didn't say hey, once a CEL comes on, You'd better COMPENSATE ME ASAP! Like I mentioned at the start and in the letter to the manager, I am a fan of this car. You can say the letter is written more from a "concerned fan" point of view. Hey, can you tell us what's going on?

I do not see this as a deterioration of character as you wrote, more like an evolution of customer/company communications. Turbowned made a good point that there can be a crap shoot as to which dealership have these CEL cases brought in and that is fine, I can believe that given the low production numbers. And even if this issue isn't widespread, a 1% failure rate is pretty bad for a brand new car. Like I had emphasized, I don't care about minor things, squeaks, rattles....malfuctioning navi but if the car is having any chance of being incapacitated for months due to engine issues, then hell yea I would like to know more! 75 reported cases on this forum is enough to raise a concern, I'm sure most of you can agree if it is YOUR car.

The dealership's response can also help you gauge how your post sale experience will be with them. There are ones that will go above and beyond for their customers. There are ones who are just well, CYA average kinda company. So did I regret sending the letter? Not a bit, because in the process, I've learned more from the interaction, whether with the dealership or with some of the most helpful and open minded forum members here.( Hint: its definitely not you. )

[TanMan]

Originally Posted by bucket

Maybe we need to post a huge thread about how frustrated we are that the CEL light never comes on?

There is one already. Its called the I Jinxed myself Thread. No, seriously, there is one on here somewhere.

[bucket]

Originally Posted by TanMan

There is one already. Its called the I Jinxed myself Thread. No, seriously, there is one on here somewhere.

Haha...I was actually thinking that as I typed.

[whitejdm]

Originally Posted by TanMan

As such, I would like to know:

1) 1) Given these widely known issues across different states and dealerships, what level of support (aside from factory warranty) can I expect from Subaru ______should my BRZ be afflicted with the engine issues noted above? (i.e loaner car, payment reimbursements should the brand new car be out for more than a month etc, and/or possible car replacement if affected and multiple earnest repair attempts are futile).

2) 2) Has the Gunma factory in Japan isolated the engine problems and are proactively replacing defective parts at the assembly line, preventing these issues for new deliveries due later this year?

I hope you can understand, as enthused I am about the BRZ / FRS, I simply cannot justify spending $32K OTR on a brand new car with such significant issues without the above two concerns properly addressed. Respectfully, I hinge my decision to cancel my order (and have my refundable deposit returned to my card) on Subaru ______’s position to this matter.

Sincerely,

__________

My issue is your letter specifically highlights the problems dealerships have to deal with in regards to managing customer expectations.

Asking the dealership to cover your payments while the car is down is just plain silly, is it their fault you needed a loan to purchase the car? If your fifteen thousand dollar stereo needs to be sent out for warrany work does the company compensate you for the lost time? That holds true for any product.

I also enjoyed: "I'm a potential customer and how you respond to this issue you've probably never heard of to a customer you've never met, on a car you haven't sold yet will determine if I take back my refundable deposit"

"angry" may not have been accurate, but just as their response tells you about the dealer, the letter tells them what kind of a customer you'll be.

Meanwhile, I can't wait to get my car come what may.

[TanMan]

Originally Posted by whitejdm

My issue is your letter specifically highlights the problems dealerships have to deal with in regards to managing customer expectations.

Asking the dealership to cover your payments while the car is down is just plain silly, is it their fault you needed a loan to purchase the car? If your fifteen thousand dollar stereo needs to be sent out for warrany work does the company compensate you for the lost time? That holds true for any product.

I also enjoyed: "I'm a potential customer and how you respond to this issue you've probably never heard of to a customer you've never met, on a car you haven't sold yet will determine if I take back my refundable deposit"

"angry" may not have been accurate, but just as their response tells you about the dealer, the letter tells them what kind of a customer you'll be.

Meanwhile, I can't wait to get my car come what may.

I don't really care about what you take issues with. I've already explained my rational. The points in which you highlight are actual dealership compensations for some of the forum members here afflicted with the CEL issue. Do a search, I didn't just pull that one out of my ass. If certian Scion dealerships can do that for their customers, why could'nt Subaru? Again, its the level of customer service one can expect...being a potential, ne'er seen before face or not, that is not the point.

[TanMan]

*UPDATE folks*

I could not find a Subie Corporate email to fwd the questions but sent a feedback form anyways from Subie's website. This is their response this morning. Note words in bold are the kind of response anyone could expect from a proactive company....





To ________

From:CustDlrServices@subaru.comSent:Fri 9/14/12 6:22 AMTo:







Dear ___ Tan:

Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your order of a BRZ through Subaru ________.
We understand the concerns you have with the reports online of concerns with 2013 BRZ vehicles. Your message has been documented in our Customer/Dealer Services database. This will allow for your message to be properly reviewed, tracked and considered by our Product Management Department. Subaru is always striving to improve upon our products and appreciates when our customers bring their interests and concerns to our attention.
Subaru is aware of these concerns through our processes briefly noted below. We are working to resolve all issues at the dealership and factory levels. This work, as you can imagine, is ongoing and not reserved to BRZ vehicles. When we become aware of recurring concerns with a model or model line, we research and identify the issues, which prompts the necessary repairs.

As a company, we carefully monitor warranty claims, parts needs, dealer contacts, customers contacts to us directly and quality survey comments to watch for any trends or concerns that can lead to customer dissatisfaction. The process we have established works well for us and in turn, it is helpful to our customers.

While the information presented at internet sites in broad, our needs are a bit more specific than what is supplied there. For example, we would need to track vehicle identification numbers (for production dates, etc.). An open public posting forum is not the best place for a customer to keep this information in the interest of safety and privacy.

Subaru is very committed to customer satisfaction. Should you have any concerns with your BRZ, please be sure to advise us and most importantly, your Subaru dealer.
Thank you again, ______, for your time and feedback.
Sincerely,

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer/Dealer Services Department
1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783)
Service Request #1-20896xxxxxxx

... somewhat cookie-cutterish but the fact that they state "We are aware and are working on this issue." is enough for me at this point.

[ashtray]

Like I said...

Btw, it you sent... no wait, PLEASE send a letter to Ferrari stating you are interested in a new Ferrari but have concerns of them bursting into flames. I'd love to see their response. Probably something cookie cutter: "Dear sir, f off. We'll never sell or let you test drive a new Ferrari, ever."

[TheRipler]

Originally Posted by TanMan

I don't really care about what you take issues with. I've already explained my rational. The points in which you highlight are actual dealership compensations for some of the forum members here afflicted with the CEL issue. Do a search, I didn't just pull that one out of my ass. If certian Scion dealerships can do that for their customers, why could'nt Subaru? Again, its the level of customer service one can expect...being a potential, ne'er seen before face or not, that is not the point.

The problem with your rationale is that it's not very rational.

As stated previously, you're coming across as irate about an issue that you have less than a 1 in 100 chance of experiencing if you decide to purchase the car. That doesn't seem very rational. If that 1:100 risk is too high for you to accept, then do not purchase the vehicle. A dealership can't do anything about problems that haven't occurred on a car that hasn't been built or delivered yet.

[a18ttc]

1:100 is this fact or assumption? We all know what assumptions do.

[tric]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17174

Electrical issues. in shop, cant come to a conclusion yet on whats causing the problem.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by TanMan

occurs at varying intervals and mileage across multiple cars (hundreds).

Hundreds? What is your source for that?

Originally Posted by TanMan

The Owner/Manager responded and UNFORTUNATELY, it IS a cookie cutter response or, bullpoop as some of you may call it, albeit very diplomatic one. Here is the first paragraph:

" In all honesty, I have not seen nor heard of any issues whatsoever with BRZ products. We have sold approximately 15 to date (the most in the Southwest) and not one has come into the dealership for any repair whatsoever... let alone those you described below. I'm at a complete loss as to what people are indicating about the car. If there were vehicle issues, I would be open and honest... however, a lack of any issues has been our experience. Furthermore, I would be EXTREMELY cautious in utilizing any online forums for technical expertise or decision making... My experience in the forums is 99% of what's stated is misrepresented, assumptions, and/or outright mistruths when it comes to any sense or understanding of the technical operation of vehicles (I read these forums from time to time and cringe at the information published to be fact when it is truly pure speculation without a justifiable basis)."

So here's the dealio. I am rather disappointed with this response. Either the owner/manager is outright unaware that the BRZ has these issues or he is calling me a liar. I think my mind is already made up but something in me feel this isn't right and I will be sending a response soon.

He should've let you know that though his dealership hasn't seen any of these problems, he'd forward your concerns to Subaru. Otherwise, his response is pretty reasonable: it seems straight forward and is personalized... a cookie cutter response would've been better written, and had less rambling

Though his 99% comment is hyperbolic, his general point is correct: online forums are a wonderful resource, but there's a lot of worthless and inaccurate minutia to sift through.

Also, I'm not sure why you think he's either unaware of these issues (that seems obvious) or he's calling you a liar. At no point did he accuse you of anything and I'm surprised your reaction was so defensive. Either he was unaware of these issues or he's a liar (I expect it's the former).

The second reply you received was definitely cookie cutter. That you were happier with that (than you were with the original reply) underscores why big companies usually send cookie cutter responses rather than more personalized responses (unfortunately).

[TanMan]

Originally Posted by Deslock

Hundreds? What is your source for that?


He should've let you know that though his dealership hasn't seen any of these problems, he'd forward your concerns to Subaru. Otherwise, his response is pretty reasonable: it seems straight forward and is personalized... a cookie cutter response would've been better written, and had less rambling

Though his 99% comment is hyperbolic, his general point is correct: online forums are a wonderful resource, but there's a lot of worthless and inaccurate minutia to sift through.

Also, I'm not sure why you think he's either unaware of these issues (that seems obvious) or he's calling you a liar. At no point did he accuse you of anything and I'm surprised your reaction was so defensive. Either he was unaware of these issues or he's a liar (I expect it's the former).

The second reply you received was definitely cookie cutter. That you were happier with that (than you were with the original reply) underscores why big companies usually send cookie cutter responses rather than more personalized responses (unfortunately).

This is why I generally dislike starting a post, it gets people too worked up. Including myself. The calling me a liar bit is more like a joke and abit of a disbelief on my part initially on how he's never heard of it. After a few forum members pointed out it somethings, I put myself in their shoes and could see how: For e.g a troubleshooting TSB for the CEL issue was recently pulled...(info from this forum, I didn't come up with that one), which could be why he and his service managers don't see anything.

BOTH replies from dealership and SOA are cookie cutterish any way you looked at it. But the fact that one source says they didn't know about it (fair enough) and the other one says "We are are aware of these concerns and are working on it through processes yada yada...", then its a no-brainer why I would be "happy" (more like relieved, glad) big SOA is admitting (sort of) to this and a solution is on the way.

For those keen on statistics.....Hundreds is conservative estimate with all the known issues combined. I should had been more specific, it is approaching 100 on the CEL issue alone. The CEL list on one of the links I provided is now approaching 80. There are couple more blogs online, YouTube online with cars (mostly FRSs) with same issue, there are two other separate BRZ or FRS forum websites recording similar issues.

Peace out guys...I will provide an update here or the TSB once I hear back from SOA when they have a more permanent fix on the engine issues/CEL issues.