High Revv NA Setup?

[Coheed]

NA is expensive per hp gained. Much more than going FI. 300whp could be had on FI for relatively cheap, and upgrades from there give even more bang for the buck once the hard parts are purchased.

I can see cams costing a good chunk. Probably $800-$1000 for perhaps 20-30whp gains, mostly on the top end. Even after that and full bolt-ons, you'd be hard pressed to be anywhere near 300whp. It's a hard mark to hit with a 2.0.

[track_warrior]

Originally Posted by Coheed

NA is expensive per hp gained. Much more than going FI. 300whp could be had on FI for relatively cheap, and upgrades from there give even more bang for the buck once the hard parts are purchased.

I can see cams costing a good chunk. Probably $800-$1000 for perhaps 20-30whp gains, mostly on the top end. Even after that and full bolt-ons, you'd be hard pressed to be anywhere near 300whp. It's a hard mark to hit with a 2.0.

Maybe per HP gained but id rather have a 260 whp NA monster than a 340whp force induction monster. I like linear power delivery and throttle response which is great in a NA!

Originally Posted by d1ck

Why don't you stop by Honda-Tech and tell them that everyone running a 9k RPM engine is a "race" engine? There are plenty of B series, D series, F Series, and H series engines running this high and doing it reliably every day.

To the OP:
I agree that this could be a great rev happy engine with cams, valve springs & retainers, and maybe a port job depending on how good the stock heads flow.

I agree, Cams, Valve Springs & Retainers, port job, headers, exhaust, pulley, intake, larger Throttle body should be giving us around 250-260 WHP with a good tune and 9k rpms easy.



Anybody wonder if ITB'S are possible in a flat 4? I wonder how it would sound

[rusty959]

ITB's are possible in a flat 4 (racing team I am on had ITB's on a flat 4 for awhile)
However, I don't know specifically to the FA20. Im sure you can setup something customish. Would open up your injector possibilities.

[FT-86GOD]

Originally Posted by pcasso87

Maybe per HP gained but id rather have a 260 whp NA monster than a 340whp force induction monster. I like linear power delivery and throttle response which is great in a NA!

That monster would be working a lot harder than FI though pcasso i would think... Dont get me wrong its just my guess....

When i was considering squeezing my LS2 6 litre ute for 500hp i looked into cams, higher comp, valve springs blah blah blah and it worked out much more easier ON PAPER to just run a big single snail especially $$$ wise.... Plus i already had spent a lot on exhaust, headers, OTR intake etc which would have all needed to be replaced...

Gladly this was around the time rumours were getting around about the FT-86 so i backed out...

I think a near 300hp N/A 86 would be epic no doubt but at what cost we will soon know.

Thumbs up to everyone having a go

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by FT-86GOD

That monster would be working a lot harder than FI though pcasso i would think... Dont get me wrong its just my guess....

When i was considering squeezing my 6 litre ute for 500hp i looked into cams, higher comp, valve springs blah blah blah and it worked out much more ON PAPER easier to just run a turbo especially $$$ wise....

I agree! Money does add up when compared to a Turbo bolt on kit. Everyone has their own taste and I already did the high compression N/A thing. It is a beauty, but its hard on the engine and pricey! As soon as I saw AVO kit, I started leaning towards turbo. Thinking back at memories of my Civic Frankenstein, I'm definitely going Turbo for this car.

With that said, I am looking forward to the N/A monster builds this forum provides!

[whitejdm]

I'm sticking NA as well no question. After owning high power, low power (no power sometimes lol) NA and FI engines I've decided to keep my cars NA from now on.

Of course this is not an NA vs FI thread so I'll just add I'd like 240ish crank hp and a redline around 8500 and I would be a happy camper.

[pyro530]

I think I'm going to be sticking with NA power and weight reduction with this car.
If I want turbo power I would rather pick up a used 2005-2007 WRX, STi or 2004-2005 SRT-4 Neon.

[MattR]

I am also wanting to keep the engine N/A!

While definitely not the end-all factor, Rod/Stroke will also play into high-revving plans. Consider what seems to be a short rod length @ 130-131mm*. This will put your R/S ratio at 1.51-1.52. Not exactly the best starting point for a 9k engine.

A higher R/S ratio will lessen the side-load on your cylinder walls which is nice when wanting to rev to the moon

A few mentions of Honda engines. Hondas are already at an advantage for increased revs due to this factor. K20A engines were in the neighborhood of 1.62, iirc. B16A() screamers were at 1.74.

The mentioned S2000 F20C engines were at 1.82, but note that when Honda introduced the F22C for the S2000, they increased the stroke which lessened the R/S ratio to 1.65. No coincidence that they also decreased the redline.

One of many factors to consider when revving high. Looking forward to fellow all-motor builds!

*If someone knows the actual rod length measurement of the FA20 please educate me. I've been looking all over the damn place and can't seem to locate it.
:happy0180:

[Dimman]

Will have to wait much longer for suitable parts, as well.

So far we haven't heard any news about cams afaik.

[Sideways?]

I'd love to go for a bit of NA tuning, not because I can get mega power for the least outlay, but because of the feel...

In the end, that is what this car comes down to IMHO - it doesn't matter how much power / grip / stickers you've got, it only matters how much you enjoy the car...

To the people who say "it would be easier to get xyz power with a turbo and less expensive" good for you, but maybe I WANT to go down the NA tuning route... If it was easy, everyone would be doing it and it would be boring, much like hearing people bang on about how underpowered the car is and how it really needs a turbo - find some narrower roads and it'll feel like you're doing 10 times the speed and then the car won't seem underpowered............

[WingsofWar]

There is something wonderful and challenging about pushing a high performance N/A to its limits. Where as FI cars I found were just completely enjoyable and pretty easy to maintain boost during HPDE when you get use to your own setup. I could never get use to retaining powerband in a N/A during HPDE but that's what made it more fun.

Ill be shooting for 250whp for my n/a build. which is going to be horribly challenging to gain that extra 100whp while retaining good reliable performance. The engine needs to comfortably make 250whp rather than straining at 250whp, so moving the powerband up on the RPM scale might be necessary to achieve that.

I want to guess the limit of this particular engine in N/A form fully built for HPDE is 300whp-350whp. While peakers might achieve 350-400.

[SkAsphalt]

260 whp is a pretty awesome goal, I myself am shooting for 200WHP for now with a NA build and will probably keep it at that level for quite some time. I have never modified a cars suspension or breaking systems, so once I am around 200whp, that would be my next step (also will be the only time I consider up sizing my rims diameter and width, so suspension upgrades will be essential to keeping a nice and balanced setup)

With my current list of parts, I think a header and a personalized tune on a dyno would be all I need for my car to hit 200WHP. Or just switching to E85 and getting a personalized tune with my Airaid intake, SRT header back exhaust and my Perrin Pulley..that could do it too.

I am excited! N/A will be this cars forte I think. Boost is great, but I hope that in10-15 years this car is still being featured in car publications with unique NA builds just like honda's and nissans of yore are today.

[whtchocla7e]

I would prefer a good NA tune to a FI setup myself.

[Spaceywilly]

I think what they're doing with the STI BRZ is perfect. 250hp, 8500rpm, and lighter weight. In a few years if that car doesn't materialize I'll try to reach those numbers with my BRZ. I think the key to making this car fast is going to be weight reduction and not big power.