Chris Harris Drive: GT86 / FR-S vs 370z vs Cayman S

[MVJ1975]

The Cayman is an awesome car. It does everything better than the FR-S. No doubt in my mind.

But I can't afford one. Simple reality check there. I can't afford to buy one, even used, and even if I could I couldn't afford Porsche maintenance.

Yeah, I'm settling with the 86, but I'll live.

For the record, I don't get the 370Z hate either. No, it isn't perfect, but it's another great option. I just happen to like little 4-cyls more than bigger V6s, so the decision was easy for me.

[Infernal]

so if you guys had this scenario:

New GT86 = £25000 (no options, in red paint)

vs

22000 mile Cayman 3.4 s = £18495
New 370z = £30000
26000 mile e92 M3 = £23500
or
28000 mile e92 335i = £14000

what would you go for? This is my dilemma

[jadewbj]

Originally Posted by Infernal

so if you guys had this scenario:

New GT86 = £25000 (no options, in red paint)

vs

22000 mile Cayman 3.4 s = £18495
New 370z = £30000
26000 mile e92 M3 = £23500
or
28000 mile e92 335i = £14000

what would you go for? This is my dilemma

Take it from a guy who had a porsche, the maintenance is HELL! Scheduled maintenance and basic stuff costs an arm and a leg, and pray nothing actually breaks.

I had a simple switch/resistor go bad that caused the headlights not to work properly....$1000 to fix. I will never own a car like that out of warranty.

[MVJ1975]

I'd dismiss both E92s out of hand. They're not sports cars, no matter how fast they are. If you're looking for a sports car, the E92 isn't going to satisfy.

The decision now becomes harder. The Cayman seems like a no-brainer, but there's hidden costs there... the Z is more expensive, but more powerful. Honestly, I think you need to test drive them and see which one calls to you. Sports car buying is a very personal, very subjective thing, and very much driven by things like how the car makes you feel when you drive it.

[Asterisked Accolade]

Originally Posted by fatoni

thats actually the exact opposite of ironic

That makes it even more ironic! :P

And wow did this 370Z thing escalate quickly. To be honest, we've seen some threads here which linked us to a Z forum and the Z guys were very pretentious and critical of the FRs/BRz and some other cars as well.

Those threads have laid the foundation for some of our perceptions of Z owners, unfortunately. So when people are saying, "I don't understand why everyone is saying Z owners are pricks," that may be the reason. Not to mention the 350Z guy who was losing his mind on video at WalMart in a video posted here a month ago. "Top down, top down!"

The thing is, many car guys can be cocky. However, it's the ones who care so much about brute power who really seem to get carried away and get under our skin the most (For myself, at least). For the record, i like the 350Z and the 370 is fine. I make it a point to avoid animosity at all costs, hence, "Inverse animosity."

I personally find Chris Harris to be very insightful, but can be sternly opinionated at times, just like anyone else in the car world. Either way, all these cars have their merits.

[DarkSunrise]

I don't know about you all, but that video makes me want to go find a used Cayman S. That exhaust note

Originally Posted by brewksy

He doesn't hate on the Miata just because it lacks power, he finds it slow, imprecise, unsatisfying, and as having a terrible driving position.

Yeah I think you're right. The Miata rolls over more than the FR-S in hard turns. I find it kind of fun, especially with the top down on twisty roads. Others might find it "imprecise" or "unsatisfying" as Chris Harris does, especially if you're driving the car at the limit frequently (say at a track).

For bombing around on backroads though, I think the Miata's top-down motoring experience is very hard to beat.

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by Asterisked Accolade

That makes it even more ironic! :P

And wow did this 370Z thing escalate quickly. To be honest, we've seen some threads here which linked us to a Z forum and the Z guys were very pretentious and critical of the FRs/BRz and some other cars as well.

Those threads have laid the foundation for some of our perceptions of Z owners, unfortunately. So when people are saying, "I don't understand why everyone is saying Z owners are pricks," that may be the reason. Not to mention the 350Z guy who was losing his mind on video at WalMart in a video posted here a month ago. "Top down, top down!"

The thing is, many car guys can be cocky. However, it's the ones who care so much about brute power who really seem to get carried away and get under our skin the most (For myself, at least). For the record, i like the 350Z and the 370 is fine. I make it a point to avoid animosity at all costs, hence, "Inverse animosity."

I personally find Chris Harris to be very insightful, but can be sternly opinionated at times, just like anyone else in the car world. Either way, all these cars have their merits.

Every group of car enthusiasts, devotees to whatever model, are going to have their share of pretentious fanboys. Haters gonna hate.

But I know plenty of Z owners (and now plenty of FT86 owners thx to this board) who are just chill, laid back car guys. Those are the ones I gravitate to at meets and events anyway.

But I disagree that it's always the "power" guys who are on a high horse. There are certainly a good number of those, but I've also seen enough of these guys pushing "ring times" and "0-60" statistics in people's faces. Who cares? Even handling numbers don't matter. Statistics don't equate to feel, and it's not always the fastest car that suits our needs the best. And if you think you're hot stuff today, a faster car will come out tomorrow.

We live in a pretty nice time to be performance car addicts, and I'm glad that Nissan still makes a Z and that Toyota and Subaru took the gamble and made RWD performance again. None of those companies "had to" make these cars.

[Infernal]

Originally Posted by jadewbj

Take it from a guy who had a porsche, the maintenance is HELL! Scheduled maintenance and basic stuff costs an arm and a leg, and pray nothing actually breaks.

I had a simple switch/resistor go bad that caused the headlights not to work properly....$1000 to fix. I will never own a car like that out of warranty.

Originally Posted by MVJ1975

I'd dismiss both E92s out of hand. They're not sports cars, no matter how fast they are. If you're looking for a sports car, the E92 isn't going to satisfy.

The decision now becomes harder. The Cayman seems like a no-brainer, but there's hidden costs there... the Z is more expensive, but more powerful. Honestly, I think you need to test drive them and see which one calls to you. Sports car buying is a very personal, very subjective thing, and very much driven by things like how the car makes you feel when you drive it.

I guess running costs are always where those bigger cars fall down, over 3-5 years even though the gt86 seems quite expensive for what you get, the scheduled maintainence, insurance, parts + labour, fuel etc turn out to make it a sensible choice, especially with the 5 year warranty

as much as it's probably not right for the car in a lot of peoples opinions i feel like the perfect version of the 86 for me (after having test driven one) would be a FI version - it would make choices like this a no-braner for most people i believe!

[nighthawk]

Originally Posted by Scion1181

Yea he must have been lucky. Here are the price ranges and next to it the numbers of cayman S found in that price range.

$20,001-$25,000 (1)
$25,001-$30,000 (14)
$30,001-$35,000 (29)
$35,001-$40,000 (75)
$40,001-$45,000 (34)
$45,001-$50,000 (23)
$50,001-$55,000 (11)
$55,001-$60,000 (11)
$60,001-$65,000 (3)
$65,001-$70,000 (2)

Well, he was talking about UK market. And as you can see, there are caymans for that money out there.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=487&p=&d=0&min=&max=&y1=&y2=&txt=&px=&x sl=list&pagesize=15&filter=TP&o=q&pc=

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by brewksy

He doesn't hate on the Miata just because it lacks power, he finds it slow, imprecise, unsatisfying, and as having a terrible driving position.

Obviously everyone has an opinion, just because someone likes a small, lightweight coupe doesn't mean they have to like every small, lightweight coupe. He often talks about the driving and wheel position of the cars he tests so he obviously puts a lot of emphasis on traits that you or I may not agree on. Doesn't mean he's prejudiced in any bad way (other than forming an opinion and keeping it).

i know what he said but the thing is a great drivers car. iirc it took second behind the cayman on car and drivers 10 best drivers last year or so. it just doesnt really add up

[Jayde]

What an excellent review! Chris Harris does amazing work! I'm glad I found that Youtube channel a few months ago. So many quality shows.

[blu_]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i know what he said but the thing is a great drivers car. iirc it took second behind the cayman on car and drivers 10 best drivers last year or so. it just doesnt really add up

He seems to be very picky when it comes to driving position. He trashed some honda si because of it pretty harshly. Besides that, doesn't the Miata come pretty soft from the factory? I definitely disagree with him on the Miata article he wrote. Its one of the few times I have. His opinion may have changed over the years as well. He took a lot of shit for that article. Maybe he realized he was becoming a snob or something.


edit: after reading brewsky's quote it appears he liked the principle of a cheap fun sports car then but just dislikes the car... who knows...

[gily25]

Nice video review...it pretty much summed up my own shopping experience.

I had shopped for a used Cayman in "I'll take a loan and not hate myself at the garage later" condition for about a year when the BRZ first hit lots. I had already dismissed the 370Z after finding it had a bulky feeling and I needed this car for commuting. I didn't have a problem finding a 370z to test drive in the BRZ/FR-S price range [1 year old with under 5k miles on it, comparable apr]. The Cayman which was my first choice (lifetime passion for the brand) just couldn't be had in a reasonable used price/condition I could live with; so I decided on the BRZ and figured my first Porsche will be a used 911 instead of a Cayman.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by blu_

He seems to be very picky when it comes to driving position. He trashed some honda si because of it pretty harshly. Besides that, doesn't the Miata come pretty soft from the factory? I definitely disagree with him on the Miata article he wrote. Its one of the few times I have. His opinion may have changed over the years as well. He took a lot of shit for that article. Maybe he realized he was becoming a snob or something.


edit: after reading brewsky's quote it appears he liked the principle of a cheap fun sports car then but just dislikes the car... who knows...

soft from the factory is correct but then you look at other reviews (and my experience which isnt a big deal since i admit im biased) and you see people like pobst saying that once the car settles, its nothing but precise. all that aside i think what mazda did was genius. a softer car from the factory means a larger market. plus, enthusiasts are going to change suspension bits anyways. he absolutely does seem like a snob. i like my journalism to be without opinion and bias. sure its entertaining but it loses its objectivity