Shopping between BRZ and MX-5. Can't get over torque dip.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

In Canada the civic is top for cars.

Glad you said "for cars" which is a category it has held for a couple of decades. Our two top sellers for the last 10 years are not cars or even SUVs. The top seller is more than double the Civic sales.


https://driving.ca/gmc/auto-news/new...canada-in-2018

[RToyo86]

I'm not surprised the Ram is two. They're practically giving them away with incentives these days.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

I'm not surprised the Ram is two. They're practically giving them away with incentives these days.

Because they are fighting with Ford for number one.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by Tangizdope

A civic which is the best selling car in America btw, has more torque than our cars. That's the 1.5t engine that is the majority of what I see in civics around me. Also the new camry also has way more torque than our cars.
Again, I am talking about torque here because OP drives a 2nd gen tacoma which has a lot of torque in the mid range which our cars do not have. In the tacoma, you do not have to bang off the limiter on an on ramp to merge at a sufficient speed.
So yes, the twins are harder to to reach a tough merge at a sufficient speed when COMPARED to a 4.0 tacoma. For example, a steep uphill on ramps that is also short distance.
Also, the new 3rd gen Tacoma's have a power band just like our cars. You have to be near redline to get power. So if you ever need a truck and like to bang off the limiter to get power, it would fit you perfectly.

Both the 1.5T civic and 4.0 Tacoma get slower 0-60 times than 18/19 BRZ.

What difference does it make what RPM you are at?

Is there some magical 60-75MPH time that the BRZ shuts down? is this the magical torque dip area? billions of dissatisfied BRZ owners not able to merge onto the highway because the torque dip is so massive after 60MPH compared to the tacoma they drove before?

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

Both the 1.5T civic and 4.0 Tacoma get slower 0-60 times than 18/19 BRZ.

What difference does it make what RPM you are at?

Are you seriously asking this question?


Do you understand what a torque curve is or how RPMs affect it?

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Are you seriously asking this question?


Do you understand what a torque curve is or how RPMs affect it?

This person is arguing that it's more difficult to merge onto the highway in a Twin.

The twin is faster than a tacoma. So I ask you too, what difference does it make?


Yes I do. Do you?

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

This person is arguing that it's more difficult to merge onto the highway in a Twin.

The twin is faster than a tacoma. So I ask you too, what difference does it make?


Yes I do. Do you?

Yep, sure do. If you're asking remedial questions understand the point the person is trying to make.

Obviously he is saying that you dont need to rev out the other motor to climb a hill or achieve a decent merging speed because of the mid range torque. Small displacement, high revving car vs a turbo charger or a large(r) displacement v6 in that specific example.

Not comparing 0-60, average everyday usage. Same thing this forum discusses all the time. Also the same reason everyone says to "just drop gears and get above the torque dip." Etc etc.

To get the full 0-60 of this car you'll be launching and getting close to redline. Not everyone does this on a daily basis in every car.

[NARFALICIOUS]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Yep, sure do. If you're asking remedial questions understand the point the person is trying to make.

Obviously he is saying that you dont need to rev out the other motor to climb a hill or achieve a decent merging speed because of the mid range torque. Small displacement, high revving car vs a turbo charger or a large(r) displacement v6 in that specific example.

Not comparing 0-60, average everyday usage. Same thing this forum discusses all the time. Also the same reason everyone says to "just drop gears and get above the torque dip." Etc etc.

To get the full 0-60 of this car you'll be launching and getting close to redline. Not everyone does this on a daily basis in every car.

It just goes back to what someone is used to. It's not "hard" for the driver to rev it up. it's more work for the engine sure, but it shouldn't be stigma against this car that you have to rev it up higher to merge or accelerate.

And I never really get to actual redline ~7400 to merge, I usually stay below 6500 when getting up, I just don't think that's a valid argument. Especially for people seeing this thread thinking they might want this car but decide against it.

The FRS/BRZ is not fast. But it is definitely more than capable for day to day commuting in almost any condition.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

It just goes back to what someone is used to. It's not "hard" for the driver to rev it up. it's more work for the engine sure, but it shouldn't be stigma against this car that you have to rev it up higher to merge or accelerate.

And I never really get to actual redline ~7400 to merge, I usually stay below 6500 when getting up, I just don't think that's a valid argument. Especially for people seeing this thread thinking they might want this car but decide against it.

The FRS/BRZ is not fast. But it is definitely more than capable for day to day commuting in almost any condition.

I, specifically never said it wasn't. The argument that person made was that it's probably easier to merge and drive daily with a more user friendly mid range.

I mean I redline my car all the time when I merge if I can, but not everyone does that. To get the motors potential you have to wring it out. That's what driving a low displacement, naturally aspirated car like this means.

[James H]

Where's the op? He started a civil war here but disappeared! Maybe he went to his astrologist to see which car to buy

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by James H

Where's the op? He started a civil war here but disappeared! Maybe he went to his astrologist to see which car to buy

Saying "the sky is blue" here can start a civil war!


He probably made up his mind based on prices just like he said he would do in the opening post.

[Tangizdope]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

Both the 1.5T civic and 4.0 Tacoma get slower 0-60 times than 18/19 BRZ.

What difference does it make what RPM you are at?

Is there some magical 60-75MPH time that the BRZ shuts down? is this the magical torque dip area? billions of dissatisfied BRZ owners not able to merge onto the highway because the torque dip is so massive after 60MPH compared to the tacoma they drove before?

Another member already explained the point of my post to you.

Just gonna correct you saying that the tacoma X RUNNER, like op has, gets basically the same 0-60 number as the twins. It's one of those situations where the tacoma will launch off faster with its strong torque and then EVENTUALLY, the twins will catch up and pass.
I never understand why people talk 0-60 numbers anyways with our cars. Don't you have to dump the clutch at a high rpm to get whatever magazines claim? Don't know about you, but I don't drop my clutch in day to day driving. So 0-60 numbers don't mean much to me.
Also, op comes from the tacoma which has strong midrange torque. That's probably why he noticed the torque dip in a twin from a freaking test drive.
If you come from a Corolla or Yaris to a twin, you're gonna be like "what torque dip?"
If you come from a torquey motor vehicle to a twin, you're gonna be like "woah, this motor doesn't make power till all the way up there?"
Where will you first notice this? In traffic when your lane is going 5 mph and the lane next to you is going 60+ mph and you want to switch into that faster lane. If you're used to a torquey motor down low. Trust me, you'll notice it. You'll just be like "come on get past the dip already!"

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

OP, we need at least six more paragraphs from you.

I'm sure they're coming. Especially if he buys either of these cars. Can't wait.

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

It just goes back to what someone is used to. It's not "hard" for the driver to rev it up. it's more work for the engine sure, but it shouldn't be stigma against this car that you have to rev it up higher to merge or accelerate.

And I never really get to actual redline ~7400 to merge, I usually stay below 6500 when getting up, I just don't think that's a valid argument. Especially for people seeing this thread thinking they might want this car but decide against it.

The FRS/BRZ is not fast. But it is definitely more than capable for day to day commuting in almost any condition.

I demand my $30,000 car be able to merge at 85mph (137kph, Canadians) at 1500rpm, or by Gawd, the internet is gonna hear about it!!!1