08-18-2018, 11:43 PM | #169 |
ft86club resident b-boy
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: Yamaha R3, moonslate 2018 GT Black
Location: LA Area So Cal
Posts: 1,214
Thanks: 142
Thanked 208 Times in 101 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Ap1/ap2 was a minor engine tweak/facelift. They already did that.
|
08-19-2018, 02:09 AM | #170 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: California
Posts: 48
Thanks: 7
Thanked 21 Times in 13 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the update for the S2k much more substantial than our current facelift? Specifically, I've heard the AP1/AP2 motors are pretty different to drive, but I haven't driven them so I wouldn't know. |
|
08-19-2018, 04:47 AM | #171 |
ft86club resident b-boy
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: Yamaha R3, moonslate 2018 GT Black
Location: LA Area So Cal
Posts: 1,214
Thanks: 142
Thanked 208 Times in 101 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
It was a really minor engine tweak, albeit a little more of a change than the zenki and kouki 86. The ap2 got a slightly longer stroke, which resulted in a lower redline, less peak power but a better torque curve in the mid range. The difference was small, like 10 lbft if i recall.
|
08-19-2018, 06:13 AM | #172 | |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: California
Posts: 48
Thanks: 7
Thanked 21 Times in 13 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Ah, I had always had the impression that it was a larger change than that. I guess the AP1/AP2 really aren't so different, then. |
|
08-19-2018, 11:50 AM | #173 |
The Fail Boat
Join Date: Aug 2011
Drives: CWP S.B.
Location: LasVegas
Posts: 3,028
Thanks: 4,718
Thanked 1,293 Times in 873 Posts
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
difference is small but it's a brand new stroke out motor with different cam thou.
That counts as a new car for petrolheads in my book. if you live in japan or countries with endless tiny backroads......... i don't think Ap2 is really a upgrade.... |
The Following User Says Thank You to chaoskaze For This Useful Post: | nikitopo (08-19-2018) |
08-19-2018, 11:57 AM | #174 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: '13 Whiteout
Location: San Clemente
Posts: 1,491
Thanks: 496
Thanked 1,242 Times in 673 Posts
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
|
08-19-2018, 01:44 PM | #175 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2017 Toyota 86 860 Special Edition
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 97
Thanks: 69
Thanked 61 Times in 37 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Also, if an updated model uses any of the same body panels it's considered a mid-cycle refresh (facelift) regardless of how substantial any engine updates are. It doesn't have to have a new chassis to be a "next generation," but it does have to have all new body panels so the general public sees it as a "new" model.
|
08-19-2018, 05:39 PM | #176 |
ft86club resident b-boy
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: Yamaha R3, moonslate 2018 GT Black
Location: LA Area So Cal
Posts: 1,214
Thanks: 142
Thanked 208 Times in 101 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
|
08-19-2018, 11:09 PM | #177 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: 2022 BRZ Limited Silver
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,532
Thanks: 882
Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,188 Posts
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
The difference is far from small. The driving experience is entirely different. The numbers Honda quotes also don’t reflect what they show on dynos. The revisions to the Twins can’t be compared to the AP1/2. |
|
08-20-2018, 12:49 AM | #178 |
ft86club resident b-boy
Join Date: Oct 2009
Drives: Yamaha R3, moonslate 2018 GT Black
Location: LA Area So Cal
Posts: 1,214
Thanks: 142
Thanked 208 Times in 101 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Alright well i was going off the manufacturer's numbers as i've never seen dynos and i've only ever driven an ap2. I remember f20c vs f22c was perpetually debated in the s2k community. Still, the f22c is also very much a high revvy engine that doesn't wake up till around 4500rpm so i have a hard time imagine it being that huge of a difference. Not saying it's not there, i know it has a different character unlike the twins' measley intake changes, but it's still a similar engine. But once again, i've owned an ap2 but never driven an ap1. regardless, neither is a full model change.
|
08-20-2018, 03:16 AM | #179 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Drives: 2023 GR SUPRA,15 FR-S (SOLD)
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 4,235
Thanks: 3,086
Thanked 2,100 Times in 1,397 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
*SOLD*OFT Stage 2 UEL E85/Nameless Performance 3 inch axleback with 5 inch mufflers/ TRD CAI / CNT UEL/ Cusco Strut BAR & LHD Brake Stop / "JDM" Toyota Badges / WinJet JDM headlights - DRL MOD from fteightysix.com - 5000K Diode Dynamics HID kit / Diode Dynamics LED interior Lights and sidemarker bulbs / JDM Clear Sidemarkers / Diode Dynamics LED switchbacks/ OLM LED rear turn signals / Tap Turn Relay*SOLD*
|
|||
08-20-2018, 05:15 AM | #180 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Drives: '15 BRZ RA
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,787
Thanks: 2,417
Thanked 1,944 Times in 1,261 Posts
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
What people perceive as a model change? An entirely different car that is far away from the original model? Subaru is pretty much conservative in this aspect and I wouldn't expect too many differences. Given the current issue in Japan with the big difference in catalog vs. real fuel consumption (i.e. issue of turbos), the bigger chance is to get a small increase in engine displacement. The downsized turbo engine is still not there and it will wait to be combined in a hybrid solution. So, I wouldn't expect any massive increase in torque or anything similar with a NA engine. Same should hold with the exterior that should not differentiate too much. The only thing they could revise entirely is the interior.
|
08-20-2018, 02:46 PM | #181 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Drives: 2017 86GT
Location: North Texas
Posts: 324
Thanks: 562
Thanked 335 Times in 166 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
|
08-20-2018, 03:53 PM | #182 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Drives: 2022 BRZ Limited Silver
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,532
Thanks: 882
Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,188 Posts
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
|
Quote:
Having driven both I can tell you it’s a big difference. The AP1 feels like a B16A until 6k. The AP2 is way more tolerable at low RPMs. Sure it’s not a full model change but there are more signification changes than have been made to the Twins. I’ve never driven a 2017+ Twin but I suspect you can’t even tell it has 5 extra HP. Drive an AP1 and AP2 back to back and it’s impossible to not tell the difference. |
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ermax For This Useful Post: | funwheeldrive (08-20-2018), Tcoat (08-20-2018) |
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
They're coming... | finch1750 | Off-Topic Lounge [WARNING: NO POLITICS] | 93 | 02-27-2016 12:00 PM |
Second gen FR-S and BRZ reportedly confirmed by Subaru President | swpbrz | Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum | 66 | 10-10-2014 03:53 AM |
KERS Hybrid FR-S High Performance Model Reportedly in Development! | Hachiroku | Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum | 68 | 01-10-2013 01:48 AM |
car coming | FIRECAR | Member's Car Journals | 0 | 07-12-2012 09:28 PM |
Turbo FR-S Tested For Drift Reportedly Spotted | DanPO | Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum | 123 | 01-24-2012 01:25 AM |