2018 BRZ tS - The Thread for Potential Owners

[Jordan Silveira]

Originally Posted by krayzie

They also never mentioned about the stiffer rear axle like on the old JDM tS.

I think they've made enough improvements on the factory assembled car at this point that they can finally export it to the US without having to make much deviation from the standard trim, to keep the cost down.

They probably spent the most effort on making the 2015 JDM tS.

Just curious, why do you say the most effort probably went into the 2015 tS?

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Jordan Silveira

Just curious, why do you say the most effort probably went into the 2015 tS?

The 18 USDM tS rides on the new 17+ updated chassis. There were extra reinforcements made, which wasn’t available for the 15 JDM tS.

If someone was really curious, they can compare a PP BRZ parts catalog to the tS catalog. I doubt you’ll find any performance differences besides the ones mentioned in the press release. I looked at the front and rear roll bars and suspension arms and they all had the same part numbers as the base model.

I think the tS is the better value if you wanted the sti bits and the limited production factor. I believe you can get a bigger discount on the tS. In addition, the CF wing, draw stiffeners, V bar, and aero panels aren’t cheap if you buy them individually. You also have the sti interior differences. They all add up very quickly.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Jordan Silveira

Just curious, why do you say the most effort probably went into the 2015 tS?

On top of what ayau said, IIRC the 2015 JDM tS included sound deadening at various places, reinforced rear subframe, new flexible v-bars replacing the flexible strut tower bar (to increase initial turn-in response), Bilstein monotube inverted front shocks and monotube rear shocks (still available from the STI Performance Parts Catalog in Japan). STI moved to Sachs with this facelift N/A tS and JDM STI Sport. It also has the stiffer rear axle and pillowball bushings for the rear suspension since the 2013 JDM tS model.

The Sachs shocks was always an optional package with the JDM Toyota 86 since the first gen as Sachs was involved with the initial development along with Showa, but the optional dampers got revised and adopted to the facelift model as part of the JDM GT trim/Performance Package).

I agree this N/A tS is great value for the price.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by krayzie

They also never mentioned about the stiffer rear axle like on the old JDM tS.

It looks that the stiffer drive shaft kit never made it to the newer cars. It is still an option for the Kouki cars and the STI Sport car. I suppose the same holds for the NA tS car (?). Check under model code E and F below:

https://www.sti.jp/parts/subarubrz_z.../ST28421AS100/

[ayau]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It looks that the stiffer drive shaft kit never made it to the newer cars. It is still an option for the Kouki cars and the STI Sport car. I suppose the same holds for the NA tS car (?). Check under model code E and F below:

https://www.sti.jp/parts/subarubrz_z.../ST28421AS100/

Correct. Just confirmed the USDM tS uses the same drive shaft as the 13 BRZ via parts catalog.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It looks that the stiffer drive shaft kit never made it to the newer cars. It is still an option for the Kouki cars and the STI Sport car. I suppose the same holds for the NA tS car (?). Check under model code E and F below:

https://www.sti.jp/parts/subarubrz_z.../ST28421AS100/

I think the N/A tS car is pretty much the same as the BRZ STI Sport. 2018 would be the F chassis?

[ayau]

If I had to guess, you won’t see a limited production 17+ JDM BRZ tS. I don’t think Sti can make enough improvements to the chassis to justify the upcharge and still make it streetable. In addition, I’m sure BRZ sales are also severely declining, similar to the US.

This should be the last performance/track oriented BRZ you’ll see in the US. I’m sure Subaru has shifted their resources elsewhere, potentially on the next gen BRZ. Still up in the air if that will actually happen.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by krayzie

I think the N/A tS car is pretty much the same as the BRZ STI Sport. 2018 would be the F chassis?

Yes, I think so.

[yurikaze]

Originally Posted by rvoll

I don't race or autocross my cars, so I didn't really notice much difference. The vast majority of buyers don't race their cars either.

Based on my experience, a significant portion of tS and PP owners do track their cars, myself included.

Originally Posted by krayzie

I think the N/A tS car is pretty much the same as the BRZ STI Sport. 2018 would be the F chassis?

The USDM tS is basically to the JDM STI sport what the '13 tS GT was to the '13 tS, minus the Recaros.
It's an STI Sport with the full aero package, and additional interior trim changes. The Australian tS is identical to the JDM STi sport, but with the additional interior trim changes the USDM tS has.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by yurikaze

Based on my experience, a significant portion of tS and PP owners do track their cars, myself included.

But for resale, you are looking at the total market for BRZ's, not just tS and PP buyers. So what you're saying is that there are over 2,000 owners of newer (17/18) BRZ's that consistently track their cars? Really? You are in the area with supposedly the highest number of BRZ's. How many with PP or tS track with you?

I don't doubt that some do track their cars, but not a "significant portion". The numbers just don't add up. That said, since we are talking about resale, neither of us know what it is going to be 3 years from now. So it's a crapshoot. I wouldn't gamble my money that the tS will garner significantly more than a standard PP given standard logic. But again, when you gamble you can be wrong. Let's talk about it again in 3 years or so and we see the KBB.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by rvoll

But for resale, you are looking at the total market for BRZ's, not just tS and PP buyers. So what you're saying is that there are over 2,000 owners of newer (17/18) BRZ's that consistently track their cars? Really? You are in the area with supposedly the highest number of BRZ's. How many with PP or tS track with you?

I don't doubt that some do track their cars, but not a "significant portion". The numbers just don't add up. That said, since we are talking about resale, neither of us know what it is going to be 3 years from now. So it's a crapshoot. I wouldn't gamble my money that the tS will garner significantly more than a standard PP given standard logic. But again, when you gamble you can be wrong. Let's talk about it again in 3 years or so and we see the KBB.

I don’t believe the tS will depreciate any less than a standard BRZ in 3 years. You might see a difference in the depreciation curve in 5+ years.

I do, however, think that you can get a bigger discount on a tS because your average RWD car buyer thinks the wing draws too much attention. The people that want it, usually younger, can’t afford to finance it. And the people that could afford it already have one.

[yurikaze]

Originally Posted by ayau

The people that want it, usually younger, can’t afford to finance it. .

This is the exact reason you'll see the value of the tS start to bring a premium over the standard 86 twins when the car's values start going up again in about 20 years. It's not just a paint color special edition (although I have a feeling the series.yellow with its run of 500 will be valuable too) and if you've noticed the FR-S RS1 is even right now currently more valuable than a standard FR-S by quite a bit.

If the existing classic Japanese car market tells us anything, it's these facts:

The rarer kouki models are generally worth more if the improvements are noticeable over the zenki. examples: Nissan S14, Toyota MA70, Mazda FC RX7, Lexus SC300, Mazda NA Miata.

Rare variants of a popular car become sought after and hold a premium. Sometimes it's a special edition, sometimes it's a performance package, other times it's a color. examples: Blue MkIV Supras, Laguna blue NA Miatas, 10AE Mazda RX7, Mazda RX7 (FD) R1 and R2, Mazda Miata R-package, Anything Autech from Nissan, Mazdaspeed Miata, AE86 Black Limited, 2-tone S13 coupes.

The 86 twins are well-known and loved enthusiast cars, with big followings in both the US and Japan. They are mostly owned by younger people who still have a lot of future and earning potential ahead of them. 20 years from now, many will be in their 40's and have disposable income, and will look back fondly at the 86 twins they used to have, and will want one again.
The tS (currently) is the rarest (500 in three colors, making each color tS rarer than any other production model, including the 250 50AE's) and has significant improvements from the factory over the other 86 twins, as well as looking like nothing else offered. Despite many magazines bemoaning the lack of power, they almost unamiously agree that the tS is a better driving car than other BRZs and 86's.
For those into 86 twins, hunting down one of these unicorns will be something worth bragging rights in the future, and the market will reflect that.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by yurikaze

This is the exact reason you'll see the value of the tS start to bring a premium over the standard 86 twins when the car's values start going up again in about 20 years. It's not just a paint color special edition (although I have a feeling the series.yellow with its run of 500 will be valuable too) and if you've noticed the FR-S RS1 is even right now currently more valuable than a standard FR-S by quite a bit.

If the existing classic Japanese car market tells us anything, it's these facts:

The rarer kouki models are generally worth more if the improvements are noticeable over the zenki. examples: Nissan S14, Toyota MA70, Mazda FC RX7, Lexus SC300, Mazda NA Miata.

Rare variants of a popular car become sought after and hold a premium. Sometimes it's a special edition, sometimes it's a performance package, other times it's a color. examples: Blue MkIV Supras, Laguna blue NA Miatas, 10AE Mazda RX7, Mazda RX7 (FD) R1 and R2, Mazda Miata R-package, Anything Autech from Nissan, Mazdaspeed Miata, AE86 Black Limited, 2-tone S13 coupes.

The 86 twins are well-known and loved enthusiast cars, with big followings in both the US and Japan. They are mostly owned by younger people who still have a lot of future and earning potential ahead of them. 20 years from now, many will be in their 40's and have disposable income, and will look back fondly at the 86 twins they used to have, and will want one again.
The tS (currently) is the rarest (500 in three colors, making each color tS rarer than any other production model, including the 250 50AE's) and has significant improvements from the factory over the other 86 twins, as well as looking like nothing else offered. Despite many magazines bemoaning the lack of power, they almost unamiously agree that the tS is a better driving car than other BRZs and 86's.
For those into 86 twins, hunting down one of these unicorns will be something worth bragging rights in the future, and the market will reflect that.

I don't doubt the tS will be worth more than a base model in 20 years. I'm just talking the tS' value in 3-7 years, when the first tS owners will be looking at trading/selling it.

[Last Lemming Alive]

Sorry guys, y’all make me laugh, I don’t think any of these 500 production cars number will hold much more value in 20 years then the standard cars. There isn’t enough performance difference to warrant them being that much more special a
model. The car is too massed produced and the small bolt on wings and struts the factory adds to suck in buyers just won’t hold value in the long run. The performance gain is marginal at best. And if you do track the car you just dumped your value right there. Ok, maybe a limited production yellow make get you a few hundred dollars in the future when you sell it, but nothing significant to warrant all this discussion about it. And I bet less than 1% of you will keep the car longer than 10 years to figure this out.

The car is a fun economy sports car, just like a Miata, but loved far less. If you really want to know what will keep the value in 20 years it’s originality, low mileage and upkeep.