Transmission Carnage Thread

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

If shot peening doesn't make the gear absorb the shock better I don't know what will:
http://machinedesign.com/metals/shot...ases-gear-life
If anything, it would reduce the surface subject to cracks or brittle.

On the other hand, I get what you're saying by the increase of the contact area. Why not both?

My mistake I read isotropic and my head just jumped to cryogenics. ( after research on cryogenics I found that it does not make metal brittle. )Yes shot peening and isotropics would help nasa seems to think it makes up to 30% stronger gears but I still think their needs more surface area to displace the energy.


I just can't see a fix for the stock units unless more material is used. That's just my opinion believe me I would love to be proven wrong. Shoot I will even test a cryogenic, shot peened, and isotropic treated unit if given the chance.
I will even supply a transmission if someone has access to these types of treatments.


EDIT: I've decided to call around tomorrow to cryogenic, shot peeing and isotropic companies and will see the cost and if they believe it will help with the problems. IF so and people want to help I will send a trans out for treatment, bolt on the slicks and flat foot shift to see what happens......


Has anyone compared the size of a V160 4th gear to the one in this trans????

[Hawk77FT]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

My mistake I read isotropic and my head just jumped to cryogenics. ( after research on cryogenics I found that it does not make metal brittle. )Yes shot peening and isotropics would help nasa seems to think it makes up to 30% stronger gears but I still think their needs more surface area to displace the energy.


I just can't see a fix for the stock units unless more material is used. That's just my opinion believe me I would love to be proven wrong. Shoot I will even test a cryogenic, shot peened, and isotropic treated unit if given the chance.
I will even supply a transmission if someone has access to these types of treatments.


EDIT: I've decided to call around tomorrow to cryogenic, shot peeing and isotropic companies and will see the cost and if they believe it will help with the problems. IF so and people want to help I will send a trans out for treatment, bolt on the slicks and flat foot shift to see what happens......


Has anyone compared the size of a V160 4th gear to the one in this trans????

Had a chat with someone in the business and they said it will help a lot. Shot peen and cryo treatment will be enough to make these gboxes strong as hell. Been quoted around 650 for cryo and shot peened

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk

[Drakiv]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

Had a chat with someone in the business and they said it will help a lot. Shot peen and cryo treatment will be enough to make these gboxes strong as hell. Been quoted around 650 for cryo and shot peened

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Pretty sure @Reaper already tried this and it didn't work, I think it's the material used for the gears. I have a set from PAR on order, they are straight cut and all gears are case carburized heat treated, cryogenically treated, & shot peened. I will post how that goes once they come in around April. However I am glad there are others starting to look into this and trying to provide options for everyone, this will only help the community the more companies that look into creating options.

[Fenix]

Originally Posted by GsxrMe

Are these Transmissions going to shit from hard shifts or the HP/TQ? I shift fast but I don't throw the pig into gear like I won't see it tomorrow.

Are aftermarket fluids advertised as better causing more harm than good?

I doubt all of them are causing more harm than good. My tranny acted like a total bitch prior to me swapping the fluid out in both it and the diff.

[spitfire481]

i never had a gear break right after a shift, only when the power came on after spooling up again. traction and power are a damn near instant death for these things lol. I have broken 3rd and 4th, but i was running limited power in 1-2 with boost by gear so im not sure how long they would last at full power and a dead hook off the line.

[matthewdesigns]

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

Had a chat with someone in the business and they said it will help a lot. Shot peen and cryo treatment will be enough to make these gboxes strong as hell. Been quoted around 650 for cryo and shot peened

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk

That person has a boat payment to make. Cryo, shot peen, and REM ISF only add a sliver of lifespan to a gearset, like a couple of percent at best. REM ISF will help a little with heat thanks to the reduction in friction at the gear tooth faces, but that's pretty minimal as well. These treatments are best utilized by people who are limited by classifications or rules in a racing series who can't swap transmissions for something stronger (without a points penalty or reclassification) and want to add that thin layer of insurance.

[VerusEric]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I don't remember having nearly as much backlash on any of my previous RWD cars. There's a shit ton of slop in my diff but it's dead quiet so I let it go.

It might be a material or treatment issue. Maybe local temper to trade some hardness for a tougher area right at that those mating surfaces?


You'd sacrifice the customers that daily this thing because straight cut gears howl like lonely wolves.

We have found that our gearset isn't much louder than a typical aftermarket exhaust. It's not horrid. Regardless, you're right, straight cut does increase vehicle noise. This was actually not the choice we wanted to go with but for other reasons we were forced to try it out.

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

I have over 600hp at the wheel 521 tq and still on my stock trans. I don't flat foot shift it just speed shift. IMO its the sudden shock that is killing this trans. Don't get me wrong its not a strong trans, but slamming gears at max power is a death sentence to it.

Very interesting... glad to hear yours has lasted. How many miles on that 500+wtq? How often do you actually drive it hard?

Originally Posted by spitfire481

i never had a gear break right after a shift, only when the power came on after spooling up again. traction and power are a damn near instant death for these things lol. I have broken 3rd and 4th, but i was running limited power in 1-2 with boost by gear so im not sure how long they would last at full power and a dead hook off the line.

Do you have any photos of your damaged units?

3rd and 4th physically look significantly less strong than 1st and 2nd. They are thinner and the gear profile is less thick. I have heard one guy kill 2nd, but that was due to driver error in his opinion... 500rwhp and bad wheel hop I think?


Anyway, trying to get this back on topic, anyone have photos to share?!?!?! I want more carnage to look through .

Side note: These transmissions are fairly easy to tear apart, rebuild, replace synchros, etc. Everything is readily available through Toyota and the synchros (for all 6) are sub $150 if you have connections with the parts guy.

[matthewdesigns]

Originally Posted by spitfire481

i never had a gear break right after a shift, only when the power came on after spooling up again. traction and power are a damn near instant death for these things lol. I have broken 3rd and 4th, but i was running limited power in 1-2 with boost by gear so im not sure how long they would last at full power and a dead hook off the line.

This is the normal failure mode that most drivers will see...once an engine hits MBT the limitations inherent in small gear teeth will be exposed in an ugly way. The Miata turbo world has this same problem with both the common 5spd, and the slightly stronger 6spd (which is also an AZ6 variant).

When people say that they have broken gears due to harsh shifting, they were likely close to stripping the teeth mid-pull anyway. And they need to learn how to shift smoothly

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by VeloxEric

We have found that our gearset isn't much louder than a typical aftermarket exhaust. It's not horrid. Regardless, you're right, straight cut does increase vehicle noise. This was actually not the choice we wanted to go with but for other reasons we were forced to try it out.



Very interesting... glad to hear yours has lasted. How many miles on that 500+wtq? How often do you actually drive it hard?



Do you have any photos of your damaged units?

3rd and 4th physically look significantly less strong than 1st and 2nd. They are thinner and the gear profile is less thick. I have heard one guy kill 2nd, but that was due to driver error in his opinion... 500rwhp and bad wheel hop I think?


Anyway, trying to get this back on topic, anyone have photos to share?!?!?! I want more carnage to look through .

Side note: These transmissions are fairly easy to tear apart, rebuild, replace synchros, etc. Everything is readily available through Toyota and the synchros (for all 6) are sub $150 if you have connections with the parts guy.

I have about 1000 miles on the street and 20 to 25 passes at the strip and a day of flogging on it on the dyno. On the street I turn the boost down its virtually impossible to hook up at that power level on the street. In street mode I drive the car spirited on the street lets say...lol

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by matthewdesigns

That person has a boat payment to make. Cryo, shot peen, and REM ISF only add a sliver of lifespan to a gearset, like a couple of percent at best. REM ISF will help a little with heat thanks to the reduction in friction at the gear tooth faces, but that's pretty minimal as well. These treatments are best utilized by people who are limited by classifications or rules in a racing series who can't swap transmissions for something stronger (without a points penalty or reclassification) and want to add that thin layer of insurance.

I called around and got the same story.. It's not a magic wand that's going to fix the problem it's a treatment to help what's working. The guys I talked to were cool and said if it was theirs they would not waste the money. So back to the drawing board for this pig.......

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by spitfire481

i never had a gear break right after a shift, only when the power came on after spooling up again. traction and power are a damn near instant death for these things lol. I have broken 3rd and 4th, but i was running limited power in 1-2 with boost by gear so im not sure how long they would last at full power and a dead hook off the line.

I guess we will find out at TX2K, I already loaded 2 spares in the trailer.....

[VerusEric]

Originally Posted by matthewdesigns

That person has a boat payment to make. Cryo, shot peen, and REM ISF only add a sliver of lifespan to a gearset, like a couple of percent at best. REM ISF will help a little with heat thanks to the reduction in friction at the gear tooth faces, but that's pretty minimal as well. These treatments are best utilized by people who are limited by classifications or rules in a racing series who can't swap transmissions for something stronger (without a points penalty or reclassification) and want to add that thin layer of insurance.

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

I called around and got the same story.. It's not a magic wand that's going to fix the problem it's a treatment to help what's working. The guys I talked to were cool and said if it was theirs they would not waste the money. So back to the drawing board for this pig.......

Can't agree more with this information. I'm glad you guys got a hold of the proper people... I was going to say 10-15% improvement in strength optimistically.

One guy testing the unit local to me, after we test the gearset for a few thousand miles, wants to do REM ISF and Cryo for peace of mind. We will hopefully have some idea how much reduction in drag REM ISF adds as we are going to do back to back dyno .

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

I guess we will find out at TX2K, I already loaded 2 spares in the trailer.....

If (when) it breaks, please take pictures!!!

We do have a spare gearset if you're interested in trying it out. The person who initially wanted to try it out backed out I think, can't get a hold of him.

[Sleepless]

It would be useful to know how the cars with failed transmissions are being used (street, drag racing, AX, road racing).

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by VeloxEric

Can't agree more with this information. I'm glad you guys got a hold of the proper people... I was going to say 10-15% improvement in strength optimistically.

One guy testing the unit local to me, after we test the gearset for a few thousand miles, wants to do REM ISF and Cryo for peace of mind. We will hopefully have some idea how much reduction in drag REM ISF adds as we are going to do back to back dyno .



If (when) it breaks, please take pictures!!!

We do have a spare gearset if you're interested in trying it out. The person who initially wanted to try it out backed out I think, can't get a hold of him.

I am interested in that very interested, I will call you