F/I Blowing motors facts

[King Tut]

I'm just here for the facts. Did I miss them?

[Freeman]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I'm just here for the facts. Did I miss them?

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

My whole post was my opinion, read it, it says my opinion.

....well....

[mrk1]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I'm just here for the facts. Did I miss them?

There are really to many variable to draw a definitive line in the sand as to when a rod will fail. So it comes down to do you want to be proactive or not on replacing them, that decision is based on opinion, the purpose of this post.

[Sportsguy83]

Thread title: "F/I Blowing motors facts"

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

My whole post was my opinion, read it, it says my opinion.

Quite the contradiction Aye?

Usually when you talk about how you set records etc., it's like when the dog has all the bark and no bite.

[totopo]

I thought his "fact" was that the rods are weakest and first to brake, based on his experience. Then what happens when the rod brakes.

Then his opinion is that around 300hp fi is where you can expect failures.

Don't know why everyone is being so harsh? No one has presented anything that says otherwise...

[Andew727]

In my opinion the weakest link on these motors are the heads for sure. i snapped a valve spring stuck open the intake valve and dropped a retainer into the cylinder. just holding the stock valve spring in my hand i could fully depress them with my fingers. i replaced the rods with skunk 2 I beams and lowered compression .08 - 1.0 with cosworth head gaskets.

i have the hks gt supercharger kit on 10 psi, bumping her up to 17.

setup:
hks gt sc
hks oil cooler
fic 660 injectors
dw65c pump
skunk 2 I beam connecting rods
titanium valve springs
cosworth head gaskets lowering compression 0.8-1.0
ft86speedfactory headers - no cat
act 6 puck clutch
LW flywheel
e-85
95mm pulley
no restrictor
trd catch can.

[Toyarzee]

Originally Posted by Andew727

just holding the stock valve spring in my hand i could fully depress them with my fingers.

On a high revving high compression motor? Crazy!

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

...

So to drive this point home their is no real way for anyone to claim a certain psi is safe. NO WAY!!!! ...

Edelbrock seems to think their level of boost is safe enough to offer an engine warranty with their kit...

[Matt@Cosworth]

all depends on how much testing they've done, as the cylinder pressure and rod loads will be effected by boost but also by the amount of spark, where the cams are etc etc

so the engine load is entirely dependent on the tune / calibration

I'd say knowing Edelbrock's reputation they are probably being quite conservative with their tune and only warrantying installations that use their tune
that's what I'd do anyway

when we produced our kit we measured cylinder pressure on the test bed and had a target figure not to exceed - the end result is what we got whilst being careful not to exceed this figure

[totopo]

Originally Posted by Andew727

In my opinion the weakest link on these motors are the heads for sure. i snapped a valve spring stuck open the intake valve and dropped a retainer into the cylinder. just holding the stock valve spring in my hand i could fully depress them with my fingers. i replaced the rods with skunk 2 I beams and lowered compression .08 - 1.0 with cosworth head gaskets.

i have the hks gt supercharger kit on 10 psi, bumping her up to 17.

setup:
HKS GT supercharger
HKS S type oil cooler
motoeast e85
fic 660 injectors
dw65c pump
skunk 2 connecting rods
titanium valve springs
headers (no cat)
small pulley
no restrictor plate

I in no way am an expert, but I think it makes sense why he thinks rods are weak and you think springs/head is weak. Spring failure is related more to rpm@temp whereas rod failure is more related to pressure(torque)@temp. So if you are running relatively lower boost and high rpm or na you will get failures at springs. But if you are looking for big power rods may fail first.

It makes sense that the springs and rods arent that beefy. They were pushing for max hp number and fuel efficiency at cheap price. Heavy springs are bad for hp and reliability, heavy rods are bad for hp and efficiency.

Originally Posted by Sleepless

Edelbrock seems to think their level of boost is safe enough to offer an engine warranty with their kit...

A warranty that changes the oem 5 year 60000 to 40% less at 3 years and 36000 miles... If that is what you call "safe". Also void if you go to the track... Road or quarter mile. So " safe" is relative...

Edit: and yes, must be their tune, which is about 240 whp 185wheel tq, which is nowhere near 300whp...

[Andew727]

another very bad issue i noticed when building my motor was the RTV overuse on mating surfaces that contain oil galleries. i had some that had so much RTV is was pretty much closed off. i went with a new engine gasket kit and tried to use the least amount possible or replaced some areas with aftermarket caps ect.

i heard of this on someones else build and could not believe how bad it actually was in there.

[Andew727]

Originally Posted by totopo

I in no way am an expert, but I think it makes sense why he thinks rods are weak and you think springs/head is weak. Spring failure is related more to rpm@temp whereas rod failure is more related to pressure(torque)@temp. So if you are running relatively lower boost and high rpm or na you will get failures at springs. But if you are looking for big power rods may fail first.

It makes sense that the springs and rods arent that beefy. They were pushing for max hp number and fuel efficiency at cheap price. Heavy springs are bad for hp and reliability, heavy rods are bad for hp and efficiency.



A warranty that changes the oem 5 year 60000 to 40% less at 3 years and 36000 miles... If that is what you call "safe". Also void if you go to the track... Road or quarter mile. So " safe" is relative...

Edit: and yes, must be their tune, which is about 240 whp 185wheel tq, which is nowhere near 300whp...

i agree completely, that is why i chose to only change out my rods and springs to save money on my budget. i had my spring failure with only 2,000 miles approx on my compressor.

my failure also occured at idle at a stop light so i was lucky to not have serious damage done when the retainer dropped.

im not sure how to upload pictures but i have some on my instagram page " @AndyB727 "

the next thing will be your transmission when you get up around 400whp ive heard but who knows when you are way above double this cars stock power. anything may pop.

[FRS Justin]

36000 miles warranty is based on a new car 0 miles, so who really gets all 36000 miles?


I would buy a factory mustang and save 10k and have more hp before I did that.


Its proven E85 car N/A have made over 200hp, why would anyone buy a s/c kit that makes 243 hp for 5k? 40hp for 5k seems a little steep to me.


Edelbrocks factory tune works with all exhaust system?? so a tune to optimize your 5k investment is required oops no warranty now.


E85, new pulley, race rom features, no warranty now






I wish to everyone good luck who buys one being happy at 243hp and a warranty for 5k you deserve to be happy


I myself would buy a Jackson for 3999 and make 300 plus hp and have my race rom and optimized tune


One more thing you get for your 5k edelbrock s/c that no one has mention is that remaining powertrain factory warranty to 60k that is usually needed by45 to 50k bye bye


SO in my mind that warranty or so called warranty is really more of a marketing tool than a warranty
go ahead and put that bad boy on your car that has 20 to 25 k miles on it because in a year to a year and a have when they might start having a problem edelbrock won't even know your name


I will admit I looked at them but its not for me, to many options out there, for that money

[Andew727]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

Edelbrock seems to think their level of boost is safe enough to offer an engine warranty with their kit...

take everyones advice in to your choices, i like to buy once cry once as much as possible but that can get expensive. im not extremely experienced with these cars but i learn something new every day i work on them. i am really trying to push the centrifugal sc output on a budget. all the advice in here seems pretty legit to me. most tunes have a pretty aggressive cam angles on these cars if im not mistaking.