Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[KoolBRZ]

The ESC is pretty much spinning the whole time the engine is running whether the power is on or not. It's brushless, so there aren't any brushes to wear out. It's not load bearing, so there shouldn't be any premature bearing failure. I can see how MT's might want the engine to slow down faster to syncro shifts, but for the AT's it can't start boosting soon enough. Don't worry about losing highway mileage, if anything, it gives better highway mileage. Now if you were driving downhill in a vacuum tube with no wind or traffic you might get better mileage, but not in the real world. there's Prius's to pass, and hills to climb and that extra power costs less fuel than the unboosted power. Just to be open-minded I suggest a back-to-back test on the same highway, both directions using the dash instant mileage calculator. Not the most scientific, but I'll bet you see a higher instant mileage with the ESC turned on, then you do with the ESC turned off.

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

The ESC is pretty much spinning the whole time the engine is running whether the power is on or not. It's brushless, so there aren't any brushes to wear out. It's not load bearing, so there shouldn't be any premature bearing failure. I can see how MT's might want the engine to slow down faster to syncro shifts, but for the AT's it can't start boosting soon enough. Don't worry about losing highway mileage, if anything, it gives better highway mileage. Now if you were driving downhill in a vacuum tube with no wind or traffic you might get better mileage, but not in the real world. there's Prius's to pass, and hills to climb and that extra power costs less fuel than the unboosted power. Just to be open-minded I suggest a back-to-back test on the same highway, both directions using the dash instant mileage calculator. Not the most scientific, but I'll bet you see a higher instant mileage with the ESC turned on, then you do with the ESC turned off.

Honestly not worried about mileage, curious about longevity though for batteries and motors but like you said it's a brushless motor.

I'm thinking I'm going to try the map, after calibrating the throttle, and go from there. Dude seriously kool nice fricking job.


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[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

With the mapping are you getting more of an exponential curve or is it diagonal in nature in the movement of the blue square.


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Neither. it's completely screwball. When I measured the throttle I was shocked how inaccurate the Procede was. The numbers I came up with started on the top row with +100 where I wanted it to be at about half the throttle range, or 65%. Minus the 20% starting point gave 45, then I tried different multipliers till I settled on 7.The differences between boxes in each column started out the same, but would have led to too much boost at full throttle, so I broke it into above 4125, and below 3750, then kept the break at 2150 for the last three columns. There was a lot of fudge factor and trial and error to get it to look right. When you look at the 3d view it's really smooth.

[KoolBRZ]

I just decided to rescale my map from the bottom up this time. I wanted to start at -75, and finish at -25, giving a range at 1000 rpms of 50. I had a range of 20% to 100% of throttle columns, giving 80. 50/80=.625. The first column from the right is 83, 100 - 83 is 17. 17*.625=36.625, and on from right to left, ending at 20 with 80*.625=75. I then decided on using an exponential sliding differential on the rows, starting at the 100 column with 20, and ending at the 20 column with 6. So starting from the right 1000 rpms at 100% throttle add 20 for the 1625 rpm row to give -5, and on to +15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, and the rest 100's. The next column I added only 19 to each row, and the next column 18, and etc. The tune came out looking pretty hot, might be too much boost at low rpms in the high load ranges. I'll find out tomorrow. Here's a pic showing the finished product.

[LucidMomentum]

You know, it's super convenient that you guys are figuring this out right as I plan to order the procede...

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

I just decided to rescale my map from the bottom up this time. I wanted to start at -75, and finish at -25, giving a range at 1000 rpms of 50. I had a range of 20% to 100% of throttle columns, giving 80. 50/80=.625. The first column from the right is 83, 100 - 83 is 17. 17*.625=36.625, and on from right to left, ending at 20 with 80*.625=75. I then decided on using an exponential sliding differential on the rows, starting at the 100 column with 20, and ending at the 20 column with 6. So starting from the right 1000 rpms at 100% throttle add 20 for the 1625 rpm row to give -5, and on to +15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, and the rest 100's. The next column I added only 19 to each row, and the next column 18, and etc. The tune came out looking pretty hot, might be too much boost at low rpms in the high load ranges. I'll find out tomorrow. Here's a pic showing the finished product.

I have to say I love this tactic as math should work. My question would be how the randomness of blue square movement will work with the execution. I have feeling we will modify the map from this point forward.

Kool do you have a way to video tape your voltmeter and tachometer at the same time? If not I'll do the recording this weekend to demonstrate what you have been doing.

I'll also try to dial in your work for the MT.




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[fenton]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

Honestly not worried about mileage, curious about longevity though for batteries and motors but like you said it's a brushless motor.

I'm thinking I'm going to try the map, after calibrating the throttle, and go from there. Dude seriously kool nice fricking job.


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I haven't been keeping up with the conversation as much lately as i have been on vacation so forgive me if i have missed something.

I know that the ESC was not intended to be used 100 percent of the time, doing so would potentially reduce the life of the electric motor. Nothing will run forever. Now it is true that without considerable load the motor wont be working as hard but i still thing this may reduce the life of the system as a whole compared to just WOT/Partial use.

You should talk to Rob about this, im pretty sure he wouldnt advise it and it may affect your warranty with him.

Now if im misunderstanding what you are saying just let me know...but from what i have been reading it looks like this map is keeping the compressor on ALL the time, no?

[iJeff]

Originally Posted by fenton

I haven't been keeping up with the conversation as much lately as i have been on vacation so forgive me if i have missed something.

I know that the ESC was not intended to be used 100 percent of the time, doing so would potentially reduce the life of the electric motor. Nothing will run forever. Now it is true that without considerable load the motor wont be working as hard but i still thing this may reduce the life of the system as a whole compared to just WOT/Partial use.

You should talk to Rob about this, im pretty sure he wouldnt advise it and it may affect your warranty with him.

Now if im misunderstanding what you are saying just let me know...but from what i have been reading it looks like this map is keeping the compressor on ALL the time, no?

I wonder if Rob would be able to source replacement parts without a long wait if a blower were to be killed prematurely.

Also, you might have missed my post in the discussion but any chance we could get the updated wait list posted? Thanks @fenton!

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by fenton

I haven't been keeping up with the conversation as much lately as i have been on vacation so forgive me if i have missed something.



I know that the ESC was not intended to be used 100 percent of the time, doing so would potentially reduce the life of the electric motor. Nothing will run forever. Now it is true that without considerable load the motor wont be working as hard but i still thing this may reduce the life of the system as a whole compared to just WOT/Partial use.



You should talk to Rob about this, im pretty sure he wouldnt advise it and it may affect your warranty with him.



Now if im misunderstanding what you are saying just let me know...but from what i have been reading it looks like this map is keeping the compressor on ALL the time, no?

Basically Kool and I are concurrently developing maps at the same time. I've kind of kept the age old understanding to shut off the esc at cruise... But kool has found significant performance gains by having the esc prespooling almost at all times.

I have no idea which is best, but I guess we need rob to chime in.


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[Sojhinn]

On a side note... If you have an odyssey battery I recommend this:


It's the metal jacket for the battery. It helps protect it an additional 40 degrees Fahrenheit.


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[KoolBRZ]

With the concern people have expressed over running the ESC constantly on my mind, I decided to plot out some maps with padding on the sides, and by padding I mean -100 zones to make sure that ESC turns off sometimes.The Cold map is the most conservative, with double buffer zones top to bottom, and side to side. This is for those mileage makers to get better mileage while cruising, and to make sure that ESC turns off sometimes. The Cool map has the starting corner padded, so letting off the throttle shuts off the ESC, and at very slow speeds under 10% throttle, but it's pretty much on the rest of the time. The Warm map is similar to the cold map, but without any corner padding. The Hot map is just that, much hotter than previous TrueScale maps of mine. I'm not sure yet if it goes past the stutter limits. The hot map uses different algorithms then the Cold, Cool, or Warm maps. It could be a bit too extreme at full throttle. Handle with care.

[vfrqqq]

It seems like it would be ideal to be able to develop a different map for each gear, right? That way you wouldn't have to worry about whether the compressor is constantly running when cruising in 6th around 3K RPM, but it would be pre-spooled and ready to go in lower gears when you are more likely to place a demand on the system. Is this possible? Can the PROcede controller be told what gear the car is in and then have it switch throttle maps?

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by vfrqqq

It seems like it would be ideal to be able to develop a different map for each gear, right? That way you wouldn't have to worry about whether the compressor is constantly running when cruising in 6th around 3K RPM, but it would be pre-spooled and ready to go in lower gears when you are more likely to place a demand on the system. Is this possible? Can the PROcede controller be told what gear the car is in and then have it switch throttle maps?

I also asked this quite some time ago. I think it would be of value to add Road Speed, which is possible to add. See pic below. The only question is which wire to tap, and how to calibrate. Not sure what the Procede is capable of once it can read Road Speed, but would like to hear from @Shiv@Openflash if he's got a minute, since he's probably the only one likely to know. It would be nice to be able to create maps for different speeds, but it might be really complicated.

[vfrqqq]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

I also asked this quite some time ago. I think it would be of value to add Road Speed, which is possible to add. See pic below. The only question is which wire to tap, and how to calibrate. Not sure what the Procede is capable of once it can read Road Speed, but would like to hear from @Shiv@Openflash if he's got a minute, since he's probably the only one likely to know. It would be nice to be able to create maps for different speeds, but it might be really complicated.

Right, and it seems that it would be even more complicated than that right? The controller would need to be told what map to use based on speed and RPM. That is, you would want to use a different map when going 65mph @ 3,000 RPM as you would going 65mph @ 4,000 RPM. I suppose one way to do that would be to develop logic that has the controller query a Speed vs RPM table telling the controller which map to choose, which would need to be sampled continuously or at least fast enough to be appropriately responsive to the fastest changes in the sampled parameter values. Then it would use the appropriate map until another threshold was reached in the Speed vs. RPM table. Additionally, there would also probably need to be some hysteresis built into the logic to account for cases where the system is straddling a map switching point. That's why I was wondering if it would be more practical/simpler to sample the gear select signal to reduce the amount of sampling or having to build in any hysteresis. I expect using the gear select signal would have it's own problems too given that the indicated gear doesn't show up on the display until after the clutch is let out almost completely.