Motor Trend: 2016 Miata vs 2015 BRZ

[Entroper]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

- No need for a roll bar/broomstick

For track use, I think this is the biggest thing. On an NA or NB, you can add a roll bar and keep your soft top. NC or ND, not so much. Only very recently did this become an option for NC: https://www.flyinmiata.com/nc-transformer-roll-bar.html

A brilliant solution, but it's well over twice the price of a roll bar for the older cars that you don't have to swap in before heading to the track, and good luck if it rains on your scheduled track day.

My NB is currently serving DD and track toy purposes. When I get an ND, it will be the DD, and the NB will become a dedicated track car.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by juliog

Can only afford one car? -> FR-S/BRZ
Can afford dedicated weekend/track toy car in addition to a daily? -> MX-5

For me, it's a matter of parking. I have 2 assigned spots for me and the S.O. in a city where nearly all parking is permitted. Had to get rid of my 3rd vehicle (pickup) due to this. No way I could have a track toy that wasn't also daily driveable. =(

[totopo]

Haha, the amount of denial on this forum is amusing. Why can't people accept that faster cars are going to come out? and that more fun cars are going to come out? Maybe because it now makes the twins the sports cars with the worst track times. But from the begining, if you bought the car for the track time, you bought the wrong car. The car was always about driving feel over track times.

Originally Posted by Scottemad123

Yea I'm curious to see what happens when they are put on equal rubber.

Haha, hasn't this been put to rest yet? The oem tires are pretty good.

pobst: He says the tires feel a bit like they're on marbles but recalls that grippier tires he tested with Tire Rack didn't improve the BRZ's lap times. "The Subaru is very happy on its stock tires because it's so balanced that there's not much drag in the turns. Extra [grip-induced] drag in cornering can slow it down."http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Thanks for posting. Watching that video just confirmed for me that the BRZ is still the clear winner if you want a daily driver that you can track on weekends.

- No need for a roll bar/broomstick
- Less body roll - will handle track tires better
- Cargo space to fit 4 track tires and tools/parts
- 2+2 coupe body better for daily driving

Where the Miata will make more sense is as a 2nd/3rd car for people who don't track, or in the other extreme, as a dedicated track-only car. Or autocross where you don't need to worry about a roll bar.

If Mazda would release a stiffer-sprung, coupe version of the ND, that would probably be a game-changer for the weekend track guys.

What is wrong with roll? It doesn't mean too much on a track. Maybe in autocross. Roll helps with uneven length a-arms, you can get more negative camber than roll angle change, which is great for corners, and better than static camber because it doesn't mess with your brake and acceleration. True it's worse in transitions and slalom, but that's not its purpose.

Day two starts at our test track, where the 155-hp MX-5 covers the 60-mph dash in 5.8 seconds, a half second quicker than the Subie and 0.3 second quicker than the previous 167-hp Miata (despite 10 percent taller gearing). It's still 0.4 second ahead at the quarter mile (14.5 versus 14.9 seconds), though the BRZ catches up by 100 mph. The Mazda brakes 5 feet shorter from 60 mph at 111 feet. We also discover that Mazda's savvy suspension geometry leverages that body roll to produce big grip. Its 25.2-second, 0.76g figure-eight performance bests the Subaru's by 0.5 second and 0.04 g

So what was it i always saw on this forum? how the figure 8 was the be-all-and-end-all test for sports cars?

[Pat]

Anyone that says the OEM BRZ/FRS tires are good performance tires is full of it. I've never driven a performance-oriented car that was on tires even remotely close to how bad the OEM rubber is. There's really no gray area here, regardless of what Pobst says. Replacing the OEM tires with any high performance summer tire of the same size will easily reduce lap times when the car is driven properly.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by totopo

Haha, the amount of denial on this forum is amusing. Why can't people accept that faster cars are going to come out? and that more fun cars are going to come out? Maybe because it now makes the twins the sports cars with the worst track times. But from the begining, if you bought the car for the track time, you bought the wrong car. The car was always about driving feel over track times.



Haha, hasn't this been put to rest yet? The oem tires are pretty good.

pobst: He says the tires feel a bit like they're on marbles but recalls that grippier tires he tested with Tire Rack didn't improve the BRZ's lap times. "The Subaru is very happy on its stock tires because it's so balanced that there's not much drag in the turns. Extra [grip-induced] drag in cornering can slow it down."http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html



What is wrong with roll? It doesn't mean too much on a track. Maybe in autocross. Roll helps with uneven length a-arms, you can get more negative camber than roll angle change, which is great for corners, and better than static camber because it doesn't mess with your brake and acceleration. True it's worse in transitions and slalom, but that's not its purpose.



So what was it i always saw on this forum? how the figure 8 was the be-all-and-end-all test for sports cars?

I've already responded to all of this in other posts you've made. No point repeating myself.

[strat61caster]

Could type up a multitude of things.

I still think the Bridgestones are not significantly faster than the Primacy's and I think equal rubber would put them neck and neck but the torqueyness and lightness of the MX-5 will keep it on top.

For the average dude who's going to buy a car and spend a couple thousand bucks on upgrades, on track the difference in raw performance at the stopwatch will be negligible, a good driver will blow the doors off a bad driver in either car, and for every 100 armchair racers on the internet there is one good driver among them. Buy the one you can enjoy off track too imo, for some that's the more DD focused car, for others it's the weekend cruiser top down car.

Glad there are still some people making fun cars.



Oh and I wouldn't trade my FR-S for a faster Miata for a number of reasons.



Edit: and cool video I was struck how much Pobst had to work the BRZ and realized he did the same with the Miata just in different corners. Interesting that he loved the BRZ's initial suspension tuning as being more planted than FRS but finds it understeery in the '15 which to my knowledge was a minor damper change...

[DAEMANO]

Once again, your average out the door MX-5 will not produce the results from this hardly scientific comparison.

A $26k FR-S/BRZ only needs $800 worth of tires, pads and fluid to get a better result than the extra $4-6 thousand dollar Club package spent to get the Miata up to par (LSD, Bilstien shocks, tires, aero) + BBS/Brembo. To me that says a lot more about the value of the 86, than what Mazda has brought to the table. They shouldn't have needed a $32k+ Club edition Miata if the MX-5 as a whole was the faster car.

Ultimately comparing pure performance of either car is pointless, but since this video went out of it's way to do so AND to stack the deck for Mazda, noting the above has value.

[shu5892001]

I don't see why this is a valid comparison..

At least in Canada, my FRS was 30 OTD, and the Miata club will be over 40 OTD.

That's 30 percent premium over the FRS

In the video we see that they used the Azuora edition or series blue or w/e, but we all know it doesn't really add any performance over a base FRS/BRZ

[drewbot]

Yup. 10k is huge

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Once again, your average out the door MX-5 will not produce the results from this hardly scientific comparison.

A $26k FR-S/BRZ only needs $800 worth of tires, pads and fluid to get a better result than the extra $4-6 thousand dollar Club package spent to get the Miata up to par (LSD, Bilstien shocks, tires, aero) + BBS/Brembo. To me that says a lot more about the value of the 86, than what Mazda has brought to the table. They shouldn't have needed a $32k+ Club edition Miata if the MX-5 as a whole was the faster car.

Ultimately comparing pure performance of either car is pointless, but since this video went out of it's way to do so AND to stack the deck for Mazda, noting the above has value.

well if youre going to use dollars (which is great, i dont know why people act like there isnt a way to assess value in cars) use what you pay and not what manufacturers suggest.

Originally Posted by shu5892001

I don't see why this is a valid comparison..

At least in Canada, my FRS was 30 OTD, and the Miata club will be over 40 OTD.

That's 30 percent premium over the FRS

In the video we see that they used the Azuora edition or series blue or w/e, but we all know it doesn't really add any performance over a base FRS/BRZ

its a valid comparison because not everyone lives in canada. in fact, the place they compared it wasnt canada.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by fatoni

well if youre going to use dollars (which is great, i dont know why people act like there isnt a way to assess value in cars) use what you pay and not what manufacturers suggest.

To be fair, $30k gets you a lot more out of an 86 (assuming ~$26k new) than it gets you out of a Miata for the foreseeable future given the Club package is $29.5k suggested.

But then again, that could also be an LS3 powered Miata with the same money.

[GhostRai]

If I had to choose given my circumstances, I'd choose the Subaru FRZ. I'd need the extra room the Scion BR-S offers, although the Miata would be better for just having all out fun (IMHO). Both are great cars and either one you choose, it'll be a fun experience.

[SmartedPanda]

For those Power-to-Weight Ratio freaks like myself. The important bit.
Basically, BRZ needs a diet, and better tires, which is doable with the $ saved compared to the Miata. Great video.

[shu5892001]

Originally Posted by fatoni

well if youre going to use dollars (which is great, i dont know why people act like there isnt a way to assess value in cars) use what you pay and not what manufacturers suggest.

its a valid comparison because not everyone lives in canada. in fact, the place they compared it wasnt canada.

Thanks for pointing that out, i actually thought motor trend was canadian based.