How hard is it to remove the engine?

[ChrisD]

Got a quote for getting forged internals installed and to be honest it's way more expensive than I was expecting after pricing up the parts myself, mainly due to the labour costs of getting the engine out and installing the rods/pistons etc and getting it back in.

So I'm just wondering if perhaps me and friends could get the engine out ourselves (then take it down to the place that will be installing the forged components) as that will knock a pretty big chunk of the labour costs off (I know this because the quote separated the cost of removing and re-installing the engine, versus the actual forged engine build labour). Or if it would be pretty stupid to attempt it, bearing in mind we don't have a car lift, just axle stands and jacks ? We do have an engine crane of course, but I'm wondering if there any other specialist tools we would need and if we'd be able to get the car high enough to do everything on just regular axle stands.

One of my friends that would be helping managed to get the engine out of his old mk1 VW golf recently, but I'm guessing the engine in the GT86 would be a lot more of a pain? The engine bay certainly looks a lot more crowded. Not sure if it makes a difference but I've got a turbo installed as well.

So yeah, do you think this is something we could do ourselves? If so, any tips or guides you can point me to?

Cheers

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by ChrisD

Got a quote for getting forged internals installed and to be honest it's way more expensive than I was expecting after pricing up the parts myself, mainly due to the labour costs of getting the engine out and installing the rods/pistons etc and getting it back in.

So I'm just wondering if perhaps me and friends could get the engine out ourselves (then take it down to the place that will be installing the forged components) as that will knock a pretty big chunk of the labour costs off (I know this because the quote separated the cost of removing and re-installing the engine, versus the actual forged engine build labour). Or if it would be pretty stupid to attempt it, bearing in mind we don't have a car lift, just axle stands and jacks ? We do have an engine crane of course, but I'm wondering if there any other specialist tools we would need and if we'd be able to get the car high enough to do everything on just regular axle stands.

One of my friends that would be helping managed to get the engine out of his old mk1 VW golf recently, but I'm guessing the engine in the GT86 would be a lot more of a pain? The engine bay certainly looks a lot more crowded. Not sure if it makes a difference but I've got a turbo installed as well.

So yeah, do you think this is something we could do ourselves? If so, any tips or guides you can point me to?

Cheers

If you don't mind me asking, what was the labor quote on pulling the motor?

where they said you could get it out in about an hour. Looking over the engine bay and the video, and provided you don't have any rusted/seized bolts or what not, I don't see why a few mechanically handy guys couldn't do it in 2 being careful and taking their time.

[wootwoot]

I think a lot of the labor is stripping the engine down. You need to take off the manifold, all the sensors, etc. until you just have heads and a block left. That takes a lot of time.

Also, getting it out will be easy. Getting it back in as it needs to be is the hard part.

[Teseo]

Dont forget to label everything like those vaccum hoses etc.
You can also take out the engine from below using a transmission jack and lift the car.
Also take pictures before so if you have problems when installimg can use it as reference

[Darryljr11]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKXiG057sOo"]FA20 Engine Swap Bonanza - Scion FR-S Track Build - EP03 - YouTube[/ame]

[Error]

Make sure that if you do decide to pull the engine to record/take pictures of everything. Whatever you decide to do, just make sure you have something to refer back to if you decide to put the engine back in.

[Impureclient]

I love watching that video. I know I've got a long while before needing to remove the engine for any reason but it seems like it was designed for easy removal. It almost looks like fun.

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by Darryljr11

Thanks, that's perfect. Looks like we could easily do this ourselves then.

Someone else mentioned also having to strip everything off the engine (sensors, manifold etc) but I'm assuming that can't be too difficult once we've got the engine out... right?

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by Uplink

If you don't mind me asking, what was the labor quote on pulling the motor?

I won't give exact prices as I'm not sure they'd appreciate that, but let's just say between £1500 and £2000 (£2000 is about $3100 USD) for "Engine Removal, Clean Up and Re-install". Then there's a separate £2000 for the actual forged engine build. However, I was thinking that engine removal cost was literally just to get the engine out of the car, but someone else in this thread pointed out there's probably quite a lot of additional work required to remove everything so that you're just left with the block. Even so, that price for the removal and re-install seems pretty high to me.

The cost for absolutely everything (rods, pistons, valve springs, gaskets, bolts, oil, coolant, etc and the labour to install it all) was about £8,000 (about $12,000 USD) and that just seems way too high to be worth it... especially when the stock transmission probably won't take that much more power even once the engine will. So maybe I'd be better off just looking in to engine+transmission swaps rather than beefing up this engine, but I dunno.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Did you also include in your pricing, all the new gaskets/seals/water pump/etc? Not a huge amount, but it adds up.

Pulling/re-installing the engine shouldn't be a big deal if you and your friends can turn a wrench.

Me personally? I'd probably just do a low pressure turbo, or SC and call it a day. No point in building a 500hp monster if you're constantly breaking the trans/diff/CVs.

[Impureclient]

I had no time to do it so I had a local mechanic recently in the last few months swap out a bad engine(#4) for me in my Cavalier Z24 I was giving my son. He did it for $400 plus whatever fluids and gaskets, so roughly $500 total.
I did the first one myself and the the second and third engine in the Z24 were about $500 also. I was under the impression that only Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche mechanics charged prices like what you are being quoted at just because they can.
That LD9 engine is much harder than the FA20 from the watching the video posted above to swap out and comparing it when I did the Cavalier by myself in the garage, I'd do the FA20 by myself too if I had the time.
If you do this, make sure you get a more detailed video too. It would be most helpful in here as these engines start getting up in miles.

2-3 hours of two grease monkey's time does not equal $3000 in labor. The guys in that video didn't even seem like that is what they specialize in and they did it in that time. Unless a mechanic is considered a highly paid profession in the U.K. getting paid what doctors do per hour, it seems like you need to shop for more prices. Also, giving out the prices of what a mechanic charges is not really a secret. If anything, it keeps them honest if you actually put a price to their name. Are they watching this site to see if you are price shopping and if so what are they going to do, refuse to charge you exorbitant amounts of cash for an easy engine swap because they are the only mechanic around able to do this?

[Gear_One_Performance]

physically removing the engine is a fairly quick and easy process with the right tools, Rebuilding it is where the labor and skill come in to play

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

I had no time to do it so I had a local mechanic recently in the last few months swap out a bad engine(#4) for me in my Cavalier Z24 I was giving my son. He did it for $400 plus whatever fluids and gaskets, so roughly $500 total.
I did the first one myself and the the second and third engine in the Z24 were about $500 also. I was under the impression that only Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche mechanics charged prices like what you are being quoted at just because they can.
That LD9 engine is much harder than the FA20 from the watching the video posted above to swap out and comparing it when I did the Cavalier by myself in the garage, I'd do the FA20 by myself too if I had the time.
If you do this, make sure you get a more detailed video too. It would be most helpful in here as these engines start getting up in miles.

2-3 hours of two grease monkey's time does not equal $3000 in labor. The guys in that video didn't even seem like that is what they specialize in and they did it in that time. Unless a mechanic is considered a highly paid profession in the U.K. getting paid what doctors do per hour, it seems like you need to shop for more prices. Also, giving out the prices of what a mechanic charges is not really a secret. If anything, it keeps them honest if you actually put a price to their name. Are they watching this site to see if you are price shopping and if so what are they going to do, refuse to charge you exorbitant amounts of cash for an easy engine swap because they are the only mechanic around able to do this?

From dealing with BMWs and such for a long time, one thing you are paying for when you get higher prices?

The job will be done right, with OE parts, and it will be done ON TIME.

The budget guys.......use aftermarket parts, mostly do a good job, but have never, ever been on time for myself or any of my friends. Less downtime is typically worth the money over the hassle (especially if it's your only car.)

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Did you also include in your pricing, all the new gaskets/seals/water pump/etc? Not a huge amount, but it adds up.

Pulling/re-installing the engine shouldn't be a big deal if you and your friends can turn a wrench.

Yeah I've priced up all of the parts (gaskets and bolts included) and the shop I got the quote for the labour from priced up the parts as well and came to a similar figure to me.

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Me personally? I'd probably just do a low pressure turbo, or SC and call it a day. No point in building a 500hp monster if you're constantly breaking the trans/diff/CVs.

Already got a turbo on it and stronger axles n CVs. Admittedly the transmission is still stock and would probably die at some point though...