SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[7thgear]

one thing you need to keep in mind is that a lot of the discussion on roadraceautox (in my opinion) is about absolutes and "nationals". They like to nitpick the particular results, which, if analyzed down to the pixle could be used to support a varying amount of conspiracies.... :o

autocross in general is extremely competitive, a day is won or lost by tenths

to say whether the RX8 is flat out better than the FRS, or the FRS is flatout better than an RX8 is really a cointoss. I'd say it is more preference and course design than anything.


also, RTR is now gone, and you have your ST* classes as the step up from Stock (Street) without going to hoosiers.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

to say whether the RX8 is flat out better than the FRS, or the FRS is flatout better than an RX8 is really a cointoss. I'd say it is more preference and course design than anything.

They're definitely close enough that there's effectively no difference for me and I'm sure the overwhelming majority of us.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by bholliday

I was reading a thread on another forum (RoadRaceAutoX) about Street class cars for 2015, and there was a debate about the competitiveness of the Twins with the RX-8. Like this thread, it appears that some believe our cars are more competitive than others.

I have a couple of questions:

1). What do you all think about the Twins competitiveness in C street this year?

2). Are there reasons why the Twins seemed to be more competitive in RTR than CS against the RX-8? I have been out of the sport for a while, and don’t know whether the rules of RTR, availability of tire sizes, talent, or all of the above might have been a factor in the results.

On paper the NC Miata should be an also-ran but Fenter and Harvey have something to say about that.

RTR was a somewhat casual class in that there was no jacket at stake. At a casual level, the average FRS (fairly new, fairly fresh) will beat the average RX8 (kinda old, probably suffering from the known compression issues). At a national level, this equation changes a bit: there is no defined hot setup for the underdeveloped FRS, and the more serious RX8 guys are checking their compression and going for used motors/cars that haven't suffered problems yet.

I also think some of the top RTR twin owners bailed once they realized the car had some shortcomings and the state of development meant it wouldn't be an immediate threat for a jacket. Not everyone is willing to grind out 2-3 years of trying to reinvent the light bulb.

The twins can definitely win national events depending on who shows up. I think those with the best chance at a jacket still need a year or two more to finish developing the car. Better pray the ND Miata goes to BS...

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by renfield90

The twins can definitely win national events depending on who shows up. I think those with the best chance at a jacket still need a year or two more to finish developing the car. Better pray the ND Miata goes to BS...

On paper I don't see how the new Miata could stay in CS. Fingers crossed.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by Arigh

I have a feeling taht the ND miata will likely get murdered in BS by the Solstice, S2K, C5, 370Z, Boxster, and Cayman. Especially if it has the 160-180 HP that people are claiming it will.

c5 is as, cayman depending on year (05-08) is BS the rest is AS or SS, solstice (non GXP) is in CS/GXP is BS (also the frs rs1.0 is in BS), 05-08 boxter (non S) is BS (but <2005 is in CS).

So they are going to be competing with most of the cars you listed anyway.

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by qoncept

On paper I don't see how the new Miata could stay in CS. Fingers crossed.

I'm with you on that. I guess we'll find out when full specs are released.

[Kido1986]

RX8 came alive in 2014 due to the new 1" rule. On 245/17s, it hits ~63mph in second. Back on most 18s, it was around 67-68 I believe. Arguably (at least I would argue) that in CS, the sweet spot is 61-62mph for a rev limiter in second gear. Rx8 is really damn close.

[Briankbot]

Originally Posted by bholliday

I was reading a thread on another forum (RoadRaceAutoX) about Street class cars for 2015, and there was a debate about the competitiveness of the Twins with the RX-8. Like this thread, it appears that some believe our cars are more competitive than others.

I have a couple of questions:

1). What do you all think about the Twins competitiveness in C street this year?

2). Are there reasons why the Twins seemed to be more competitive in RTR than CS against the RX-8? I have been out of the sport for a while, and don’t know whether the rules of RTR, availability of tire sizes, talent, or all of the above might have been a factor in the results.

I read the same thread. What I took away was that the course being driven will be an important factor in the competitiveness of the twins: A course that doesn't put the twins into the torque dip with low speed corners, and doesn't have high enough speeds to keep the twins on the limiter will help. A course with both of those elements will hurt.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by qoncept

On paper I don't see how the new Miata could stay in CS. Fingers crossed.

Originally Posted by Arigh

I have a feeling taht the ND miata will likely get murdered in BS by the Solstice, S2K, C5, 370Z, Boxster, and Cayman. Especially if it has the 160-180 HP that people are claiming it will.

On paper it doesn't belong in CS but doesn't have a chance in BS. The problem with that is it's going to be a popular car...so do you shaft all those new owners who want to bring their toy out to play, or shaft existing CS participants? I don't envy the SEB because it's gonna be a lot of hate mail either way.

Don't forget the MSR debacle. The SCCA has been extremely kind to Mazda in the past. It may or may not help that they're an official sponsor.

[justint5387]

Highly doubt the SAC will reclass the MSR from BS. It is competitive in BS last year.

Maybe SAC will put some newer cars in ES, the cars there are over 20 years old.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by justint5387

Highly doubt the SAC will reclass the MSR from BS. It is competitive in BS last year.

Maybe SAC will put some newer cars in ES, the cars there are over 20 years old.

I think you missed my point. The MSR should have never been stock class legal, it was a pure trunk kit. Exactly zero of these cars were assembled in the factory - every MSR in existence was converted from a base MX-5.

An exceptional guy like Heinitz can make the car look competitive, but come on...he's running a Corvette heads up. That's a losing proposition. Whether it's competitive or not doesn't matter though; the MSR and Z0K got buried to fix the mistake that ruined CS.

The current SAC still remembers those lessons, but who knows which of them will still be in the seat when the call needs to be made. I'd love to see the ND in CS if and only if the SAC is willing to bump some of the cars without a prayer against the ND down to ES...ugh, too many acronyms. I'm gonna grab a beer now.

[Kido1986]

Originally Posted by renfield90

I think you missed my point. The MSR should have never been stock class legal, it was a pure trunk kit. Exactly zero of these cars were assembled in the factory - every MSR in existence was converted from a base MX-5.

An exceptional guy like Heinitz can make the car look competitive, but come on...he's running a Corvette heads up. That's a losing proposition. Whether it's competitive or not doesn't matter though; the MSR and Z0K got buried to fix the mistake that ruined CS.

The current SAC still remembers those lessons, but who knows which of them will still be in the seat when the call needs to be made. I'd love to see the ND in CS if and only if the SAC is willing to bump some of the cars without a prayer against the ND down to ES...ugh, too many acronyms. I'm gonna grab a beer now.

The rule for Stock class Mazda used is there had to be a production version and then you could convert the right models. So Mazda built four. But they learned and are now moving rare variants and expensive conversions to a buried class.

Except with the Shelby GT. They refuse to bury that car but it needs it IMO.

Im questioning the ND's competitiveness in CS against the RX8, to be honest. I'm definitely not worried about it being too quick for CS. The power to weight ratio likely wont be enough.

Though, I do know the rough weight when I shouldn't That red "cup" car is 1010kg, with no stereo, no sound deadening, racing wheels, added roll cage and NC drivetrain (the Skyactive engines and trans are lighter). The air shipping label they used from Japan to US was left on the car at Daytona/

[mla163]

Has anyone broken the stock endlinks with an aftermarket bar?

I have a clunk in the front and my best guess is the endlinks.

[Shark_Bait88]

Well now that the specs are coming out on the ND, it looks like the FR-S/BRZ is going to have a slight power-to-weight advantage; even with the ND only weighing 2,200lbs.

http://jalopnik.com/2016-mazda-miata...-to-1682771004