Sprintex 335 Testing & Progress

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by yomny

Not sure if it has been answered before but how much boost does the 80mm pulley acheive? You say you have to blow off some boost right meaning we can't really run the base boost this kit provides unless built? Any progress on pump?

Good question but I haven't looked yet. Sounds weird, but in reality if it is 12 psi or 18 psi, my course of action will be exactly the same. Which is to watch the data and see what kind of timing/HP numbers we get. I'd guess around 14 based on that, 15 maybe. Pump gas will be going in later today. Maybe I'll hook up a 3 bar temporarily and see.

I do have one correction and that is the 15% gain in going to a smaller pulley. That was referencing going from a 75 to a 70 on the 210, here we would go from an 80 to a 70, which would be double that. So going to the raceseng 70 would probably end up with 400+ assuming the stock/header and exhaust would allow it. Another issue though is the intake, we're hitting 5v on our big intake, which means you'd need a 3.5" MAF or bigger to flow what this would flow on a smaller pulley. If we didn't have the MAP sensor fluctuation issue we could do speed density, but not an option in the current configuration.

[Xero-Limit]

Put in a 3 bar MAP sensor to see where boost falls in. About 2.3 bar or 19 psi peak. Note that past 5k we see the variability that causes misfires. OEM sensor is going back in.



Also filled up with pump gas, but there's still some e70 in there, down to about e30. So far so good, employing the cam changes and pulling a bit extra timing to keep knock counts at bay. Still pulling stronger than the 210 on e85 by a good margin.

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

very interesting reading Mike, maybe time to get a few 355's shipped into the UK......

[blown]

Does a different brand map sensor work without the variability?

[sam69]

Mike if you were to build an engine for the 335 what compression ratio would be better in your opinion 9:1 or 10:1 ?

[Xero-Limit]

Originally Posted by sam69

Mike if you were to build an engine for the 335 what compression ratio would be better in your opinion 9:1 or 10:1 ?

Street car 10:1, track car 9ish:1. With direct injection we'd be going 10 or 11:1 range for this setup if we were building it. Higher compression should allow us to keep the blower in a better efficiency range.

@blown, no way to use a 3rd party 3 bar in the provided location. A "surge" tank as simple as a vacuum manifold may work. Just need to dampen the signal. You could easily wire in a GM 3 bar MAP sensor and just get the signal by tapping the plate for a 1/8 NPT.

[Xero-Limit]

Pump Gas Update!

Got the ethanol burned through and put nearly 800 miles on the car since the blower went in. Some highway, but some were going up and down our local "race track" showing customers what this setup can do.

Immediately once we got down to e30 we saw increasing knock counts, tip in knock, and the normal ethanol corrections weren't quite correct due to being at such high boost. We got the timing down, and reverted to our reduced cam timings. That brought the knock counts down to reasonable levels you might see with a 210, only with about 50 more HP. Eventually dropped it down to full pump gas, and everything is just fine.

Some observations here:

On pump gas you definitely make more power with the 335 over the 210, by far. But if you run exclusively pump gas, a lower boost system would be best. The reasoning is that when you turn the bigger blower to make 18-19 psi, you're using up lots of HP to do that. So the 335 at 300hp will really be taxing the motor an extra 20 or so HP over the 210 to make the same. Even though we reduce ignition timing to reduce the load on the motor and cut back power, you're still compressing a much larger amount of air. That means you're using more fuel and engine power to achieve the same power levels. Only caveat is that we're still making way more power on pump gas than the 210 did on e85 and small pulley.

I think our preliminary conclusion here is that this setup is NOT for:

• Those running pump gas exclusively especially 91 or euro 95.

This kit is likely good for those running:

• Mixture of ethanol or water/meth, with an understanding that the throttle percentage of time at 100% throttle will be inversely proportional to the lifespan of the motor.

This kit is perfect for those running:

• Mostly e85 or WMI. Lots of anectodal cases of people running 15+ psi on the stock motor and holding up fine on ethanol.
• Built motor. If you get some forged pistons/rods in there and head studs, this will be an absolute monster with a 70mm pulley, large header/full exhaust, and e85. This I'd like to see!

[Calum]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

snip

Any chance of a dyno plot? Even a delta% over baseline?

[jay1989]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

Pump Gas Update!

Got the ethanol burned through and put nearly 800 miles on the car since the blower went in. Some highway, but some were going up and down our local "race track" showing customers what this setup can do.

Immediately once we got down to e30 we saw increasing knock counts, tip in knock, and the normal ethanol corrections weren't quite correct due to being at such high boost. We got the timing down, and reverted to our reduced cam timings. That brought the knock counts down to reasonable levels you might see with a 210, only with about 50 more HP. Eventually dropped it down to full pump gas, and everything is just fine.

Some observations here:

On pump gas you definitely make more power with the 335 over the 210, by far. But if you run exclusively pump gas, a lower boost system would be best. The reasoning is that when you turn the bigger blower to make 18-19 psi, you're using up lots of HP to do that. So the 335 at 300hp will really be taxing the motor an extra 20 or so HP over the 210 to make the same. Even though we reduce ignition timing to reduce the load on the motor and cut back power, you're still compressing a much larger amount of air. That means you're using more fuel and engine power to achieve the same power levels. Only caveat is that we're still making way more power on pump gas than the 210 did on e85 and small pulley.

I think our preliminary conclusion here is that this setup is NOT for:

• Those running pump gas exclusively especially 91 or euro 95.

This kit is likely good for those running:

• Mixture of ethanol or water/meth, with an understanding that the throttle percentage of time at 100% throttle will be inversely proportional to the lifespan of the motor.

This kit is perfect for those running:

• Mostly e85 or WMI. Lots of anectodal cases of people running 15+ psi on the stock motor and holding up fine on ethanol.
• Built motor. If you get some forged pistons/rods in there and head studs, this will be an absolute monster with a 70mm pulley, large header/full exhaust, and e85. This I'd like to see!

So is it your thoughts that running e85 is safer on a built engine than running 91 or 93?

[blown]

Originally Posted by moto-mike

@blown, no way to use a 3rd party 3 bar in the provided location. A "surge" tank as simple as a vacuum manifold may work. Just need to dampen the signal. You could easily wire in a GM 3 bar MAP sensor and just get the signal by tapping the plate for a 1/8 NPT.

anyone try doing this with success?

[sam69]

Any more updates on this ?

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by jay1989

So is it your thoughts that running e85 is safer on a built engine than running 91 or 93?

You are asking if e85 is safer than 91 or 93 on a built engine?


Doesn't matter built or not, e85 is always safer than pump.

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

You are asking if e85 is safer than 91 or 93 on a built engine?


Doesn't matter built or not, e85 is always safer than pump.

This... E85 is like 105 octane if I remember right. Higher octane = higher knock resistance, built or not

[xwd]

Originally Posted by brianhj

This... E85 is like 105 octane if I remember right. Higher octane = higher knock resistance, built or not

E85 doesn't really have an octane equivalent. It will make as much power and be almost as knock resistant as running 116+ octane gas like VP Import or Q16, and is much much cheaper. You just need the right pump/injectors/etc. since you will be using more fuel with E85. There is a reason the highest HP drag cars run on pure methanol and not gasoline.

I would never run a 335 or turbo over 12PSI on anything but E50+ built engine or not.