FRS vs BMW 228i

[xRavenFRSx]

Originally Posted by reni

Not taking price into account made this review completely pointless. If you're spending $12k more it's not really surprising to get more power and a nicer interior. The review could have actually been interesting if it was instead trying to answer the question of whether or not the BMW is good enough to justify the price premium over the FRS. (and not just the price to buy the car but the total cost of ownership as well)

This is not quite the type of review you think it was meant to be. If it was, i'd agree with you.

[JesseE]

The CLA is FWD... I don't think it should be compared to a 2 series or any bmw for that matter


Nice review, I liked it!

[Jaden]

I just don't understand the not taking price into account...

Of COURSE you have to take price into account, not taking price into account, just get a bugatti veyron or a mclaren mp4-12c, or a porsche spider 918...

They out perform all those other cars and are better driver's cars in every way..

If you're capable and you want a super car's performance on a budget... buy a camaro ss that's crashed and a previously stolen and stripped twin and put the entire camaro drive train in the Twin...

$8000 for a crashed camaro with working drive train, $6000 for a stripped frs with limited damage, 10-15K to make it all work together and some elbow grease...

9000 for an edelbrock e-force carb legal super charger... 600hp in a carb legal vehicle at less than 3000lbs, yeah....for a total of less than $50K...

That's the way to get a budget super car... shit you can then rebuild the entire interior and replace the rotors and pads with carbon ceramics from the z/28 and you're still in it for less than $60K...

The reason it doesn't happen more often is that most people who are capable of it, don't want to do one offs which are much easier (and cheaper) than trying to build a kit you can sell to others to make it easier for them and that raises the costs to levels that would make more sense to buy a more expensive sports car to begin with. basically a 1500-1700 lb lighter Z/28 lol...that's WITHOUT any additional weight reduction. I also jumped up the price at every step there if you didn't notice, fabbing yourself will make it even cheaper. It's possible to get out of this for less than $40K, or you can develop replacement body panels, wider body panels to allow for the wider rear end, front end with hemp, silk, or carbon fiber and STILL be in it for less than 60K..

But the key is being able to fab...That's what true tuning is all about though... not this let's pay a shop a 100K to turn a 27K car into a 25K car that's faster...

Jaden

[Re~Mix]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I just don't understand the not taking price into account...

Of COURSE you have to take price into account, not taking price into account, just get a bugatti veyron or a mclaren mp4-12c, or a porsche spider 918...

My article is solely for comparison between the BMW 228i MSport and Scion FR-S and the purpose of not taking price into account was to compare them as drivers cars. That is, the experience behind the wheel and nothing else.

If you want a tabloid review go read Car and Driver or Motortrend. Yes, I referenced $8000 not being a conversation-stop between the FR-S and 228i, however it is a bit different when you start scaling that to any price and any differential.

Do as you will couch cushion reviewers, I drove the actual cars over 1000 miles each and wrote this to provide informative entertainment for automotive enthusiasts.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Re~Mix

My article is solely for comparison between the BMW 228i MSport and Scion FR-S and the purpose of not taking price into account was to compare them as drivers cars. That is, the experience behind the wheel and nothing else.

If you want a tabloid review go read Car and Driver or Motortrend. Yes, I referenced $8000 not being a conversation-stop between the FR-S and 228i, however it is a bit different when you start scaling that to any price and any differential.

Do as you will couch cushion reviewers, I drove the actual cars over 1000 miles each and wrote this to provide informative entertainment for automotive enthusiasts.

My response was just more in general towards people who compare the cars and don't want to allow for mods and starting prices...

I wasn't really meaning that as a dig on your op...

Jaden

[tahdizzle]

Define "Drivers Car"

Because thats all subjective.

If your definition of a drivers car is eliminating everything that takes away from the act of "Driving" and the "feel of driving".

The OP is obviously way off and written by a BMW exec.

[Re~Mix]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Define "Drivers Car"

Because thats all subjective.

Can't argue with that point, hence why its an article written from my perspective. I don't claim to speak for everyone. If you're trying to drum up a pointless online argument, find another internet evangelist to prod.

[tahdizzle]

Not saying the OP was incorrect in the opinions made.

Just saying if the scale was based on a vehicle being a "driver's" car. Then some drivers like feeling every imperfection in the road and doesn't mind a rough ride.

Some driver's don't want to have knobs and lights everywhere and just want an on/off type of experience.

[Ganthrithor]

Your girlfriend has very good taste in cars!

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by Re~Mix

Gearbox

The two car's once again show their European and Asian roots in the gearbox. The FR-S has a snappy 6 speed shifter with short throws and a clutch pedal lacking real feedback. It's light and odd, but you do get used to it and are extremely thankful in stop-n-go traffic. 8/10

The 228i features a silky smooth shifter with mid length throws (too long for my taste), however the BMW clutch pedal is magic. Plenty of feedback and weight, just the way a clutch should feel in my mind. 7/10

I'm wondering if the OP actually drove the car or does the US gets a completely different gearbox & clutch assembly to the UK?

Every F2# 1er & 2er I've driven has got a positive but vague feel to it which gives you an impression of bulking & can lead to the occasional missed gear if you try to rush the change rather than letting the revs settle. On the clutch side of things while feel and weight is good the CDV makes smooth changes very hit & miss as well as making medium quick launches unnervingly jolty.

[Re~Mix]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

I'm wondering if the OP actually drove the car or does the US gets a completely different gearbox & clutch assembly to the UK?

Matter of perspective. While the throws are smooth, they are long and it lacks that 'click-click' type feel you get in an Toyota/Honda gearbox. The longer throws sometimes lend themselves to misshifts (i.e. going 2nd to 5th instead of 3rd).

Clutch pedal felt great to me, but I've only had the pleasure of driving manual in a few BMWs (M3, Z4M, 335i, 2 series) and a handful of other cars. Definitely upstages the FR-S, and you have to remember I am comparing the two cars directly...

[EAGLE5]

The 228i is a nice little car. I drove one at the BMW experience thing on an autocross. It's a decent driving experience, but it's just not a joyous driving experience. The steering is just too numb. Certainly it's a better can than the FR-S in many ways, and definitely faster overall. That's just not why people buy the FR-S.

[normancw]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

On the clutch side of things while feel and weight is good the CDV makes smooth changes very hit & miss as well as making medium quick launches unnervingly jolty.

I agree - I removed the CDV on every BMW I've had, the clutch is much better without it.

[GT86meMR2]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

The 228i is a nice little car. I drove one at the BMW experience thing on an autocross. It's a decent driving experience, but it's just not a joyous driving experience. The steering is just too numb. Certainly it's a better can than the FR-S in many ways, and definitely faster overall. That's just not why people buy the FR-S.

A better car than the FT86 in what aspect? i drove a base 228I and compared to my GT86 the only thing i liked was the extra torque.