FR-S vs S2000

[samsam5886]

Originally Posted by Mike

Sam, you forgot the lack of factory camber adjustment in the front...

Aero looks to be better. I can already imagine the car with a Voltex wing and APR front splitter. And diffuser.

Oh yes that's a biggie for me! I hate outer tire wear. I meant to imply that when I mentioned the front suspension.

lol yes I can imagine that too. I think I'll keep everything stock this time with the exception of tires and brakes. But then I'm sure I'm not the first to think that way at first haha.

[samsam5886]

Originally Posted by ZDan

For the FR-S/BRZ mission and power/weight, I don't think the 55/45 distribution is a big deal (same as my old S13 which handled brilliantly). But the S2000 is definitely the racier platform.

Yup. No doubt that the S2000 definitely is racier. And I'm not too obsessed with 50/50 weight distribution either. Just take some girls in the rear seat for a ride to get more weight in the rear lol

[takchi]

Overall the weight distribution shouldn't matter too much. What matters more is how the engineers developed the car as a whole package. Numbers are great on paper, but what's even more interesting is how this car will feel to the driver. The S2000 is definitely a great car as I drive a CR myself, but there is always room for improvement. Steering feel is good and I wouldn't complain about it really. None of us are as good as Keiichi Tsuchiya or Michael Schumacher to say that this steering feel is going to make me drive better. IMHO steering feel is only one part of the equation for driving experience. There is still chassis dynamics, power response, suspension response, grip response, etc. I'm having high hopes as this car was built specifically to stir the soul of the driver. That scope is rather grand and impressive for a car that's only priced at $25k.

[gtfan]

It seems as though that the S2000 will be the higher performance vehicle (obviously). But by only having 2 seats, and the inability to carry around a second set of tires, and the rather low mpg (to me) separates the two cars due to practicability and every day drive-ability. I guess my point is that the two cars are very different, but they are in fact so close in nature, that I wouldn't want to own both of them. I think that the FR-S/BRZ will be the better car for me, but I do admire the S2000, it's an amazing little car.

[takchi]

It's possible that future models of the BRZ (STI?) will be near equivalent in power setup compared to the S2000. What's going to be the nail biter is if Subaru and Toyota can develop a setup that will enhance the FT86 program to compete against older handling machines like the FDs and the APs. It's a little interesting that this car will be competing against the Miata more directly due to power and weight categories. I'm sure this car will shed weight like crazy as soon as people start modifying it. Hopefully this chassis is super rigid from the factory to take the abuse of what we're all going to do to it.

[vang]

Originally Posted by Gardus

I think the S2000 is grippier because is fitted with S02/03 or Re040 tyres as OEM equipment, the 86 has enery saving tyres, am I right?

Yes, your assessment is correct. To reiterate what someone else said, the wheel diameter has nothing to do with the amount of grip available. Grip simply boils down to tire compound and width. In fact, the Toyobaru engineers purposedly selected economy tires for the FRS to give it more "drift" aka "low-grip" characteristics.

Originally Posted by gtfan

It seems as though that the S2000 will be the higher performance vehicle (obviously). But by only having 2 seats, and the inability to carry around a second set of tires, and the rather low mpg (to me) separates the two cars due to practicability and every day drive-ability. I guess my point is that the two cars are very different, but they are in fact so close in nature, that I wouldn't want to own both of them. I think that the FR-S/BRZ will be the better car for me, but I do admire the S2000, it's an amazing little car.

Good summary of the comparison. The S2000 and FRS share so much in common in terms of sporting purpose, but they diverge when you start thinking about the everyday dealings of practicality. Although I really want an FRS, my AP1 will keep me equally entertained plus my monthly payments will be lower.

[worfworf]

I miss my S2000... nothing is quite like it... especially with the top down. Granted it will bite your ass (rear will slide out) when you are not paying attention. Numerous times the tail whipped out all of a sudden. Also, there is no torque. Nada. I think my Scion xB had more torque... ha ha...

[ZDan]

The tail *never* steps out for NO reason!
Responsive cars *RESPOND* to driver inputs, whether said driver is doing it right or doing it wrong.

That said, the AP1 is particularly punishing of mistakes, and unnecessarily so, due to wonk-ass rear toe change with bump.

Anyway, here's how probably 50% of S2000's meet their end:
Uninitiated driver manages by some miracle to get the back end to step out under power despite next-to-no torque, lifts off the gas which unloads the rear tires, and around she goes! Right into a ditch/curb/tree/what-have-you...

[Gardus@Supersprint]

Mine ended in a ditch after finding a wet corner in a dry evenining.
They were irrigating the fields and some of the water ended on the road.

[samsam5886]

Oh one more little detail about AP1 S2K vs 86. 86 has a lower steering ratio for quicker steering with more feel

13:1 vs 13.8:1

[AaronCompNetSys]

Originally Posted by ZDan

by some miracle to get the back end to step out under power despite next-to-no torque

I have spent much time ensuring I can reliably and predictably powerslide my AP1 on request. Takes keeping it near the redline as much as possible, tossing the weight around a tad, and almost bald tires! I just love the reactions I get from bystanders during low speed power slides around town (like we are talking someone on foot could catch up with me). I keep a set of bald tires in the garage for whenever I get the urge, or track time

Not recommended for newbs.

[suzuka]

Originally Posted by worfworf

I miss my S2000... nothing is quite like it... especially with the top down. Granted it will bite your ass (rear will slide out) when you are not paying attention. Numerous times the tail whipped out all of a sudden. Also, there is no torque. Nada. I think my Scion xB had more torque... ha ha...

Originally Posted by ZDan

The tail *never* steps out for NO reason!
Responsive cars *RESPOND* to driver inputs, whether said driver is doing it right or doing it wrong.

That said, the AP1 is particularly punishing of mistakes, and unnecessarily so, due to wonk-ass rear toe change with bump.

Anyway, here's how probably 50% of S2000's meet their end:
Uninitiated driver manages by some miracle to get the back end to step out under power despite next-to-no torque, lifts off the gas which unloads the rear tires, and around she goes! Right into a ditch/curb/tree/what-have-you...

Originally Posted by Gardus

Mine ended in a ditch after finding a wet corner in a dry evenining.
They were irrigating the fields and some of the water ended on the road.

an OS Giken or Carbonetics carbon LSD should make an S2000 less unforgivable to novice, or even to those new to rear drive cars. Here's an owner wringing out the AP1 (one of the most unforgiving rear drive car when the rear steps out) with carbon LSD. Oversteer virtually non-existent when WOT throttle very early at exit corner. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z38tFT9oE04"]ATS Carbon LSD / Initial Torque 20Kg-m - YouTube[/ame]

"it works super-linearly and midly"

"... I think we have the best LSD ever"

"(without this LSD) There's now way you can drive like this"

... and judging by the bid, this hardcore LSD also looks very streetable

[AaronCompNetSys]

Limited slip is for sissies and track cars. Locking diffs (torsen) are for real men and sports cars. Overstear for life.

Yes it takes time to learn, but its worth it, trust me.

[NESW20]

locking diffs are for trucks. duh.