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Old 06-28-2014, 01:28 PM   #29
DeadStar7
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Try that on an old non-hydraulic clutch that has 10" of travel and needs about 10Kg of force and the bite point is right on the springs strongest point.

I sit with my foot on the clutch 99% of the time.
We're talking about the FR-S here. If you use your whole leg, I'm calling you a n00b. I'm a truck driver, and know all about long, hard clutch pedals.

Don't ever touch the clutch pedal unless you are going to use it. Are you new?
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Old 06-28-2014, 05:46 PM   #30
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I hope your not resting your foot on the clutch pedal with this pivoting heel on the floor business while you are just driving down the road. That will cause premature throwout bearing failure. Same goes with holding onto the shifter all the time while driving could cause gear issues.
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Old 06-29-2014, 07:04 AM   #31
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Don't ever touch the clutch pedal unless you are going to use it. Are you new?
I'm new to the GT86, 4 weeks give or take. I'm not new to manuals as I'm from the UK, about 1 in 20 cars here is an auto and I've never driven one.

My clutch pedal bite is about 1-2 inches off the floor, drags when cold if not floored. I have about 2 inches of "dead pedal" at the top, it's just the pedal spring, then there is some actual clutch take up before it will even begin to slip. I happily sit with the weight of my foot taking up the "dead pedal" at the top. Granted I "could" adjust it, but it's fine, I'm already used to it.

I have heard this, "Take your foot right off the clutch after every use" before, but never from an instructor. Neither the learner or advanced instructor. In fact it gives you quick access if you need to emergency stop and makes gear shifts much faster.

Even when I'm on CC I have my foot on the clutch and the other hovering over the brake or between brake and accel. I hate taking my feet away from the pedals and then I have to find them again in a hurry if something happens.
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Old 06-29-2014, 07:14 AM   #32
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I hope your not resting your foot on the clutch pedal with this pivoting heel on the floor business while you are just driving down the road. That will cause premature throwout bearing failure. Same goes with holding onto the shifter all the time while driving could cause gear issues.
Clutch: Only if you are putting force onto the actual clutch springs. If you can't tell the difference between the pedal spring and the clutch springs you haven't been driving a manual very long.

Shifter: Only if you are putting any force on the shifter, doing so can accidentally pull it just out of gear when the engine load releases due to a thorttle movement. Your default response would be to put it back into gear but the syncros are not designed for that, especially without the clutch down! If it does happen, move it all the way to neutral and then re select the gear with help of the clutch. Unless this is what you wanted, I call it pre-loading. A split second before you need to change, apply some force aiming to pull it out of gear, it will resist if the accelerator is down or you are under engine braking, but the instant you lift off or clutch it it moves.
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Old 06-29-2014, 07:56 AM   #33
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Actually, reading/searching around on the web for references to the procedure of taking your foot right off the clutch I am just finding endless amounts of bizarre stuff about driving manuals and... on 'merkin forums. Most of it seems to be from people who have been driving autos for a while and are now learning a manual. In the UK if you take your test in an auto, you are limited to autos and must take the test again in a manual if you want to drive "stick", this is for a reason!

At "Stop lights"/ red traffic lights, people are even recommending sitting in neutral with your foot off the clutch and your foot firmly on the brake pedal. Or... sitting in 1st with the clutch floored and your foot on the footbrake. No and No.

Clutch down, stop in any gear, though if you're in 6th, probably best to visit 2nd or 3rd while braking or you'll be clutching it at 10mph or more to prevent under-reving or the car "pushing" you. Try it in a diesel and you'll know all about under reving when the car suddenly starts resisting the brakes even at idle. ECUs (GT86 included) have a tendency to resist stalling and will apply throttle to "help" you.

Once stopped, immediately pull the handbrake on and pull the car into neutral. Handbrake, THEN neutral and foot brake off. Do NOT sit with your foot on the foot brake, brake lights have a purpose, distracting and blinding everyone behind you is not one of them unless you are actually braking.

Note, if the stop will be momentary, like less than 15 seconds, leave it in gear. If uphill bite the clutch and sit hill holding on the clutch, if downhill, clutch down and foot brake. If on level, clutch just below the bite, accelerator off. Note that for learners hill holding on the clutch is frowned upon as it's easy to screw up, but when you have experience it's fine, for SHORT periods. If you do it for longer than 10-15 seconds you will find your clutch will heat up, expand and the car will start to roll forward unless you adjust. This will cause excessive clutch wear. Personally I have sat on the clutch on hills for several minutes at a time for a lot of my driving and my last clutch still lasted nearly 60,000 miles before it began to slip. They are NOT easy to brake unless your a completely idiot or repeatedly do hot shifts or clutch pumps and dumps.

There was a recent massive car pile up on a foggy motorway bridge here. Those people sitting stationary who did not have the handbrake on where deemed partly responsible when they shunted the car in front when they got rear ended.

Setting off (more care on a hill), lift the clutch to the bite point, applying enough accelerator to just lift the revs a tiny bit, push the button on the handbrake and slowly lower it making sure the car will not roll back, adjust the clutch and accelerator to ensure this. When happy, drop the handbrake fully and return your hand to the wheel, accelerate away in 1st.

As to having your foot on the clutch all the time, it will NOT damage your clutch unless you are putting enough force on the pedal to actually slip the clutch or pull on the release spring/bearing. Then and only then will you put undue wear on it.
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Old 06-29-2014, 08:31 AM   #34
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FFFFUU!#$ using your whole leg. I'm a size 10.5 and I have never had an issue pivoting. I'm so used to readjusting that I have zero issue with it. Then again I'm the same type of guy that heal toes ALL the time, I've done it for so long I simply can't drive a manual without doing it. Pivoting makes for a MUCH smoother launch for DD'ing and you can be very precise.

Everyone is gonna have their preference obviously. If I'm dragging I usually don't "slam" the clutch but instead just try to shit as quickly as possible.

I'd also agree that it's never a good idea to finick with your clutch pedal or put any pressure on it whatsoever if your not going to use it. I treat it the same as I would a gun trigger. You never touch it unless you're planning to use it.
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Old 06-29-2014, 08:55 AM   #35
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I actually think, based on SuiSid3l's point that it's a "What you learnt first" thing.

If you learnt to drive an auto first, then you will have a natural fear of the clutch, like it's a new thing or something extra you had to learn to use. You might then think keeping your foot off the clutch pedal when not using it is a natural thing.

If you learnt a manual first, you are more likely to keep your foot on the clutch pedal as you've been using since you started learning and realise it's a pedal you will be using a lot, like most of the time except when cruising. If you are accelerating or braking, you are either changing gear or preparing to change gear. That leaves being stopped in neutral when the clutch does very little either way and there is no risk in "riding it" or when cruising where riding might slip the clutch, but you learn that fairly quickly first time you do it and then don't slip the clutch!

Besides if you are slipping the clutch while rolling you WILL hear the change in engine tone, it will sound more like an auto. Plus there are times when slipping the clutch while rolling will help, particularly in 1st which is very lurchie, those lurches disappear if you slip the clutch very slightly. Also approaching in 2nd hoping to pull away at a "Giveway", but need to reduce a little too much... not enough point going to 1st, slip the clutch a little and accelerate in 2nd.

Finally... if you don't have both feet on the pedals, even on CC, you are not fully in control of the car. Even when cruising on a motorway, you may need to take emergency avoiding action. You might need the clutch. If you put both feet on the mat when in CC you need to rethink.
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Old 06-29-2014, 09:50 AM   #36
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Shifter: Only if you are putting any force on the shifter, doing so can accidentally pull it just out of gear when the engine load releases due to a thorttle movement.
Resting your hand on the shifter puts a constant load on the synchronizers and will cause them to wear prematurely. In older four and five speed sports cars like the Triumphs and the MGs, the third gear synchronizers were always the first to go because people would shift through first and second pretty quickly and then rest their hands on the shifters while winding out third more slowly. As a result, it's not uncommon to find these old cars with no third gear sync (or no third gear at all).

The synchros on the 86s may be better quality, but given the number of complaints about failures on the tech board, I'd rather just exercise a good habit of taking my hand off the shifter when not actually using it.

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Clutch: Only if you are putting force onto the actual clutch springs. If you can't tell the difference between the pedal spring and the clutch springs you haven't been driving a manual very long.
The clutch is a levered system that translates a relatively small amount of force from your foot to a larger amount of force applied against the springs in the pressure plate. Resting your foot on the clutch puts pressure on the throwout bearing and will cause it to wear prematurely.

If you'd rather drive lazy and don't mind replacing the throwout bearing more often, do it however you like. But please don't tell newbies that it's okay to develop your bad habits.
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Old 06-29-2014, 09:56 AM   #37
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Size 12 shoes, I keep my heel on the floor mat and then pivot off of the dead pedal and lift up a little bit when I hit the clutch. I use my leg to push it in the whole way.

On a side note, I can not for the life of me heel-toe. But that's the other foot.
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:58 AM   #38
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If you'd rather drive lazy and don't mind replacing the throwout bearing more often, do it however you like. But please don't tell newbies that it's okay to develop your bad habits.
This is bollox. I have driven this way for 7 years, through about 100,000 miles and 3 cars. I have only had to replace or repair a clutch once and that was 60,000 miles old and it was the plates were worn not the release bearing. I was really hard on that clutch too.

You will find very people few who started driving a manual who move their foot off the clutch.
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Old 06-29-2014, 11:04 AM   #39
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In fact it gives you quick access if you need to emergency stop and makes gear shifts much faster.

I hate taking my feet away from the pedals and then I have to find them again in a hurry if something happens.
An emergency stop requires the brake. It does NOT require the clutch.

I hope you don't plan to sell your car with that worn-ass clutch at some point. Luckily I'm in Canada, where the few people that actually drive standard tend to be quite good at it. I'd say 95% of cars here are automatic, so it actually takes people that know what they're doing to be in that 5%.

Maybe we should ship you over an automatic FR-S? hehe. Just kidding.
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Old 06-29-2014, 11:06 AM   #40
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...makes gear shifts much faster.
No.
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Old 06-29-2014, 11:14 AM   #41
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This is bollox. I have driven this way for 7 years, through about 100,000 miles and 3 cars.
...you killed 3 cars in 7 years and still think this is okay?
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Old 06-29-2014, 11:14 AM   #42
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Resting your hand on the shifter puts a constant load on the synchronizers and will cause them to wear prematurely.
And this, correct me if I'm wrong but the syncros are only doing anything when the ratios of the shafts are not equal, ie, you are out of gear. Once IN gear there is no concept of syncro, it's just a splined ring or ring of dogs are that fully connected. Pulling on the gear shifter does nothing other than put a little load on the selector fork. If accelerating the load the splines/dogs are under is massive compared to any load you can produce through the shifter.

Resting your hand on it puts very little load on anything and the GT86 has a sprung loaded shifter, it requires a good few 100 grams to push against that and feel the actual physical connection to the selector fork and "feel" the gearbox vibrations through the stick. In short there is a huge amount of sprung freeplay.

As to why certain cars wear certain syncro's has more to do with how and why different gearboxes use different types of syncro on different gears. The selector fork and syncros are often different on the carriage which contains 3rd or 4th as it is often the 3rd or 4th cog used for reverse and the carriage has the selector for the reverser gear as well to deal with making things more compact and less room for certain types of syncro. The 4th syncro in my last car was somewhat dubious as a result of that cog being used for reverse as well and may have been grinded by selecting reverse while rolling forward many, many times in it's life, at 90,000 miles on the clock it still shifted perfectly, it was just clutchless shifts you would discover the syncro wear.
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