2015 WRX vs. FR-S/BRZ

[DeeezNuuuts83]

I finally test drove a 2015 WRX last Friday. It handles well, much better than its predecessors, but from all the reviews, I was expecting it to be better. But maybe I'm just spoiled. Though there's nothing wrong with it, as it doesn't understeer like a pig the way the prior models did, it's just not as sharp as I was expecting. FR-S/BRZ wins in that department, hands down, though it's not by a huge margin, just a clear one.


But the engine was pleasantly surprising, even though I knew it was going to be good, considering the dyno results that compared the 2.0T to the 2.5T in the STI. But man, that car has very little lag while punching hard once the boost kicks in, as it's more noticeable in the higher gears since you don't necessarily have to downshift to pick up speed. As far as torque goes in the low to mid range, it feels like my Evo does, just 1000 rpm sooner, but with a little less top end. It's not a bad trade-off... very flexible powerband, good power and pretty good fuel economy.


Having driven the car... while I'm not one of the people crying about it, I just think that they're stupid for not putting this engine in the BRZ yet. That combination would be pretty awesome and it would convince me to get one.

[Weasel Soup]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

I really like that channel.

I haven't driven a new WRX, they do seem like a big improvement.

My car history is WRX->MS3->test driving: BRZ, Sonic RS, Juke then buying Golf R->test driving a BMW i3 then buying the FR-S. Boost and instant torque are fun, but for me, the handling that the CoG of the twins provides trumps all.

[totopo]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

I finally test drove a 2015 WRX last Friday. It handles well, much better than its predecessors, but from all the reviews, I was expecting it to be better. But maybe I'm just spoiled. Though there's nothing wrong with it, as it doesn't understeer like a pig the way the prior models did, it's just not as sharp as I was expecting. FR-S/BRZ wins in that department, hands down, though it's not by a huge margin, just a clear one.


But the engine was pleasantly surprising, even though I knew it was going to be good, considering the dyno results that compared the 2.0T to the 2.5T in the STI. But man, that car has very little lag while punching hard once the boost kicks in, as it's more noticeable in the higher gears since you don't necessarily have to downshift to pick up speed. As far as torque goes in the low to mid range, it feels like my Evo does, just 1000 rpm sooner, but with a little less top end. It's not a bad trade-off... very flexible powerband, good power and pretty good fuel economy.


Having driven the car... while I'm not one of the people crying about it, I just think that they're stupid for not putting this engine in the BRZ yet. That combination would be pretty awesome and it would convince me to get one.

Why does everyone ask for the turbo on the BRZ? Are you willing to accept the weight it comes with? How much does the weight of a turbo that is factory reliable add on to a car?

If it's any indication at all, probably not though:
Impreza: 2944 lbs-3021 lbs (not that far off from the twins!)
WRX: 3267-3320lbs
STI: 3386-3444lbs

Soooo.... at that hp, price, and weight... what you are saying is you want a 370z

edit: I know it's a completely different manufacturer and all, but turbo 4's aren't light
Genesis 2.0T: 3495 lbs
Genesis 3.8: 3594 lbs.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Yes. I'm entitled to my own opinion.


I didn't say anything was wrong with the FR-S/BRZ, I've driven them before and even made a write-up on here and said that the 200 hp it came with was perfectly adequate. I just said that after sampling the 2.0T, I felt it was too good of an engine to never put into at least one of the twins -- please tell me, what is so wrong about that?


Weight this, weight that... yes, it's going to be heavier, but that comes with the territory. Weight is the enemy, but people act like any extra weight up front is going to turn the car into a foxbody Mustang. People were saying the same thing about the C6 ZR1, which was going to be a little heavier up front due to the supercharged LS9 motor (as its weight ratio wasn't going to be as good as the C6 Z06's 50:50 distribution with the LS7 up front), but it ended up hardly deteriorating the handling.


And maybe instead of posting weights of completely different cars and generalizing that cars with turbocharged four-cylinders are heavy (even though in this case, you are using cars that are much heavier to begin with... as I could just post about the 2014 Mini Cooper S which also has a 2.0T and weighs less than all of the cars you listed), look for weights of the engines. Manufacturers have the know-how to work some magic. BMW went from a 3.2-liter I-6 in the E46 M3 to a 4.0-liter V-8 in the E90/92 M3 while making the engine lighter. Mitsubishi managed to make the 4B11 lighter than the 4G63 it replaced. So it's not impossible to spice a car up under the hood without it having the equivalent of an anchor in there.


And even if it does get heavier, they can do things to offset it, whether it's lightening up the front elsewhere -- i.e. more use of aluminum up front (whether it's more body panels or suspension components), moving weight toward the back (like how the Evo X and the ZR1 have their batteries in the trunk... I think the Z06 might also, I just can't remember) -- or re-tuning the suspension to help preserve handling and steering feel.


There are a number of guys who have added forced induction to their FR-S/BRZ, but I haven't really heard much about the goodness of the car deteriorating. I think it will be fine.

[Saul_Good]

I've had a pretty modded subaru legacy and now i drive a Miata (one day i'll get a brz/frs).

My views are based on my weekend warrior HPDE & autox activities.

Although the WRX/STI is fast in the straights and pretty quick in the corners, I believe the awd, turbos, etc are add-ons to an econobox chassis to make up for the fact they are not lightweight, balanced cars. I mainly track my ‘fun’ cars so I don’t really care about speeding and doing WOT power runs and all the other stuff on the streets—although I understand people need to feel that pull that turbo car gives. I enjoy outbraking, outcornering, out driving “faster” cars. Plus I love the feeling and less finickyness of an NA car vs a turbo car.
BRZ/FRS…. Miata/S2k all day.

[roybotnik]

Originally Posted by Saul_Good

I've had a pretty modded subaru legacy and now i drive a Miata (one day i'll get a brz/frs).

My views are based on my weekend warrior HPDE & autox activities.

Although the WRX/STI is fast in the straights and pretty quick in the corners, I believe the awd, turbos, etc are add-ons to an econobox chassis to make up for the fact they are not lightweight, balanced cars. I mainly track my ‘fun’ cars so I don’t really care about speeding and doing WOT power runs and all the other stuff on the streets—although I understand people need to feel that pull that turbo car gives. I enjoy outbraking, outcornering, out driving “faster” cars. Plus I love the feeling and less finickyness of an NA car vs a turbo car.
BRZ/FRS…. Miata/S2k all day.

I was dead set on a BRZ as a track toy and then started thinking about the new WRX.. But I feel the BRZ will be more fun for weekend duties. Already have enough turbos on my 997 turbo (my first post yay!).

[Dark]

WRX turbo is smooth, not in your face like last gen. Only 2 complain, Shifter and Seat.

[86Toyobaru]

I have 08STi and GT86. I just went to test drive 2015 WRX today. If OP want to own a boosted car, I would pick new STi. The 2015 WRX dont have a boosted car fell like STi. Its more linear response. And gear box is not as smooth as STi. These are the two major reason that I wont pick 2015WRX.


Power: 08STi >2015WRX >GT86
Handle: GT86 >2015WRX>08STi

[Dark]

Originally Posted by 86Toyobaru

I have 08STi and GT86. I just went to test drive 2015 WRX today. If OP want to own a boosted car, I would pick new STi. The 2015 WRX dont have a boosted car fell like STi. Its more linear response. And gear box is not as smooth as STi. These are the two major reason that I wont pick 2015WRX.


Power: 08STi >2015WRX >GT86
Handle: GT86 >2015WRX>08STi

It's really hard to hide the extra 500lb, when doing spirited driving, but WRX is fine as it is. You can't find a more competitive 4 doors car at 26K.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Dark

WRX turbo is smooth, not in your face like last gen. Only 2 complain, Shifter and Seat.

The Subaru short shifter is pretty good IMHO. The seat is no Recaro but its nice looking, much better than previous WRX support and adjustability too. If you want extreme you need a racing type seat but that doesn'tfit the majority.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

You can still get the STI shifter on the WRX. The one I test drove a couple Fridays ago had it.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by wbradley

The Subaru short shifter is pretty good IMHO. The seat is no Recaro but its nice looking, much better than previous WRX support and adjustability too. If you want extreme you need a racing type seat but that doesn'tfit the majority.

I own the car with short shifter. The problem is not how the shifter travel, the shifting feel is just bad. Seat definitely looks nice and premium and the leather is very very good for a 29K WRX Limited trim. The problem is, it doesn't hug small people well... well I'm not small by any standard, and it doesn't hug me well either.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Dark

I own the car with short shifter. The problem is not how the shifter travel, the shifting feel is just bad. Seat definitely looks nice and premium and the leather is very very good for a 29K WRX Limited trim. The problem is, it doesn't hug small people well... well I'm not small by any standard, and it doesn't hug me well either.

The Alcantera seats are probably grippier. I don't think the seat is as good as the FR-S but its a lot easier to live with on a commuter car than, say, an Evolution MR. I think they designed it for their target audience. The shifting takes some adjusting I think because the revs hang especially in 1st to 2nd. Apparently the rev hang is set in the ECU as part of an emission thing for exhaust gas recirculation. I really like the car for what I bought it for. Glad I kept my FR-S to satisfy needs that this car cannot.
$29 K, wow thats cheap. I paid MSRP and with freight PDI and dealer accessories mine was like $35,500. + 13% TX in Ontario. With our $ @ .90 US I paid around $32k + TX. equivalent in US$.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by wbradley

The Alcantera seats are probably gripper. I don't think the seat is as good as the FR-S but its a lot easier to live with on a commuter car than, say, an Evolution MR. I think they designed it for their target audience. The shifting takes some adjusting I think because the revs hang especially in 1st to 2nd. Apparently the rev hang is set in the ECU as part of an emission thing for exhaust gas recirculation. I really like the car for what I bought it for. Glad I kept my FR-S to satisfy needs that this car cannot.
$29 K, wow thats cheap. I paid MSRP and with freight PDI and dealer accessories mine was like $35,500. + 13% TX in Ontario. With our $ @ .90 US I paid around $32k + TX. equivalent in US$.

That rev hang just ruin it for me. I'm talking about Limited. I got mine for 33K+ Tax. Limited with HK/Keyless and Short Shifter.