Mobil 1 0W-20

[SubieNate]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...pics/2804931/1

This thread hits on some of the stuff I read. Mainly, the PP 0w20 vs 5w20 NOACK values. The 0w20 actually has a lower NOACk than the 5w20, likely linked to better base stocks. Conversely, the PU 5w20 beats both.

The shear thing I read seems to mainly apply to w30 vs w20 oils as opposed to the low temp rating.

Cheers
Nathan

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...pics/2804931/1

This thread hits on some of the stuff I read. Mainly, the PP 0w20 vs 5w20 NOACK values. The 0w20 actually has a lower NOACk than the 5w20, likely linked to better base stocks. Conversely, the PU 5w20 beats both.

The shear thing I read seems to mainly apply to w30 vs w20 oils as opposed to the low temp rating.

Cheers
Nathan

I believe Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra has been reformulated once or twice since then. See my reply above for the latest PP data points. You have to look for the "with PurePlus" data sheets for the latest.

At least I compared it to Mobil1 to keep this thread somewhat on-topic.

-Dennis

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

@gpshumway-I did a ton of reading over at bitog before I bought my first oil change supplies. I'll be the first to admit I'm not a chemist. Just trying to add to the discussion. Probably should fact check a bit more. The NOACK quoted for PP 0w20 was in the 8.x range if I remember right. I did a bit more reading and it was either a typo or they changed the formula, the current value is what you said.

You're not hallucinating. SOPUS just re-formulated both the Platinum and Ultra product lines, now calling them "Pure Plus". NOACK values went up across the board. Whether the overall formulation is better or worse is still an open question.

Interestingly, the product in the bottle may be better than what's on the data sheet. PQI America recently tested Pennzoil Yellow Bottle 5w20 and got a NOACK of 6.5%(!) so apparently SOPUS had some extra GTL base stock lying around.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Feb2014/co...ed5w20ALL.html

Originally Posted by qqzj

Thanks, for folks in warmer areas and other folks in summer, how would you rank the typically oils we can buy at Walmart for BRZ? Is it like this?

M1 5w20 > PU 5w20 > Gastrol 5w20 > PP 5w20 > Valvline 5w20 = Quaker State 5w20, and similar ranking for 0w20's?

I probably will switch to 5w20 after warranty is over and my current stock pile of 0w20 is gone.

I would rank all of the oils in a given grade and category very similarly. Which is to say all the top tier synthetics are so close in performance it's pretty hard to tell them apart. So, Pennzoil Ultra, Pennzoil Platinum, Mobil 1 (incl EP and AFE) and Castrol Edge Extended (Edge Ti) all belong on the top tier. Synpower, Edge w/Syntec, and Quaker State Ultimate Durability belong one notch down.

But, the difference between top tier and 2nd tier synthetics is much less important than matching the grade to the expected usage. For a street driven 86 in a warm climate, a top-tier 5w20 would be a good choice.

Engines are actually less sensitive to operating viscosity than you might think. Honda says the R18 in my Civic is designed to run fine with 0w16, and judging by my factory fill UOA, they mean it. Yet the European Civic manual lists grades from 0w20 to 5w40 for any temperature range.

Given that, one could easily run a good ILSAC xw30 synthetic in a warm climate or even a HD xw30 like GC or M1 ESP.

This all assumes the owner is not concerned about a non-recommended grade causing denial of warranty coverage. Luckily the 86 has convenient language about using thicker oil for high temperatures, hopefully that saves an unlucky owner's bacon.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by gpshumway

I would rank all of the oils in a given grade and category very similarly. Which is to say all the top tier synthetics are so close in performance it's pretty hard to tell them apart. So, Pennzoil Ultra, Pennzoil Platinum, Mobil 1 (incl EP and AFE) and Castrol Edge Extended (Edge Ti) all belong on the top tier. Synpower, Edge w/Syntec, and Quaker State Ultimate Durability belong one notch down.

So how do all of these oils compare to same grade motul, redline, amsoil?

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by gpshumway

PQI America recently tested Pennzoil Yellow Bottle 5w20 and got a NOACK of 6.5%(!) so apparently SOPUS had some extra GTL base stock lying around.

Easy there. Solarent and Molakule on bitog (oil blenders,as you know) have actually stated that it's possible to achieve a good NOACK in a mineral oil without synthetic base stocks.

Although Pennzoil says:

11. The recent voas of Quaker State and Pennzoil conventional 5W-20s show extremely low NOACK. Are these oils getting GTL basestocks as well?

At the moment PurePlus™ Base Oil will primarily be used in our Pennzoil Platinum® line of products. However, in the future other engine oils in our portfolio may contain a percentage of PurePlus Base Oil, if required for a specific formulation. Products in the remainder of the Pennzoil portfolio will broadly continue to use conventional base oils as their primary base oil type.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/pennzoil-q-a/

Key words, "At the moment", "primarily", "may", and "percentage".

Unfortunately, Mobil1 does not list NOACK.

-Dennis

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

So how do all of these oils compare to same grade motul, redline, amsoil?

Motul and Amsoil make a bunch of different product lines, so it's hard to generalize, but here goes:

Motul 300V is targeted toward track use, so it's great for high temperatures but won't do long drain intervals. It also doesn't carry any API certification so it could present warranty problems.

Motul's full synthetic oils like X-Clean and X-Lite generally belong in the top tier, but many are targeted for European OEM applications and don't carry current API certification (SM or newer). Motul seems exotic and therefore
"good" here in the US, but in France gas stations have Motul signs all over the place just like we have Mobil signs here in the US. Same goes for ENEOS in Japan.

Amsoil Signature Series belongs in the top tier, but its primary claim to fame is long drain intervals, it's not necessarily that shear stable. It's also not API certified.

Amsoil OE and XL are pretty good, XL is about a half notch below the best big-brand oils. OE has the same base stocks as XL, but insufficient additives for long drain intervals.

Redline's street oils are fairly similar to Motul 300V, except they have sufficient additives for medium length drain intervals. Good for high temperature track work, but not necessarily better than more available oils for street use. Redline 5w30 performed pretty poorly in Amsoil's TEOST 33C deposit test. I've been using Redline 5w30 and 0w30 in my WRX until recently, see my UOA thread on NASIOC linked above.

Again, correct grade is more important than pushing past the point of diminishing returns to buy boutique oil. If I had an 86 I'd probably use Pennzoil Ultra 10w30 during the summer track-day season and the new PU 0w20 in the winter. In a warmer climate I'd use PU 5w20 in the winter.

Originally Posted by bluesubie

Easy there. Solarent and Molakule on bitog (oil blenders,as you know) have actually stated that it's possible to achieve a good NOACK in a mineral oil without synthetic base stocks.

Although Pennzoil says:

11. The recent voas of Quaker State and Pennzoil conventional 5W-20s show extremely low NOACK. Are these oils getting GTL basestocks as well?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/pennzoil-q-a/

Key words, "At the moment", "primarily", "may", and "percentage".

Unfortunately, Mobil1 does not list NOACK.

-Dennis

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I knew exactly why the PYB NOACK came out so low in the PQIA test, just that the oil in that particular bottle was a lot better than the 14.7% NOACK listed on the PDS.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by gpshumway

Motul 300V is targeted toward track use, so it's great for high temperatures but won't do long drain intervals. It also doesn't carry any API certification so it could present warranty problems.

IMO, Motul 300V could easily handle 6-7,500 mile intervals under most conditions. There are actually a few uoa's on it in this forum. When it was reformulated a couple (?) of years ago, they said they were aiming for more track and less street but the detergent/dispersant package is still pretty decent for typical 86 intervals.

And don't forget about Motul 0W-20 Eco-lite. Unlike turbocharged Subaru's, the n/a FA20 seems to be doing fine on thinner 0W-20's. Toyota even offers a TRD 0W-20 in New Zealand. Even some forced induction/tracked applications are running Red Line 0W-20 (of course, not your every day 0W-20). In general, the uoa's here have had a few comments about elevated copper, but most of the cars don't have that many miles on them yet (less than 18k).

And Motul still claims "ester based" on the Eco-lite as well and it's a mid-SAPS oil.

PQIA just tested another batch of conventional 5W-20's. I really wish they would test some synthetic 0/5W-20's.

Ok, I think we've covered 14 different topics which is the requirement for all oil threads.

-Dennis

[kiichiro]

No

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

IMO, Motul 300V could easily handle 6-7,500 mile intervals under most conditions. There are actually a few uoa's on it in this forum. When it was reformulated a couple (?) of years ago, they said they were aiming for more track and less street but the detergent/dispersant package is still pretty decent for typical 86 intervals.

When the new 300V formula came out I remember seeing that the TBN had dropped substantially. Maybe it's got an overbased additive package similar to M1 ESP where it stabilizes at ~2.5 TBN for a long time. I modify my previous statement. Looks like it can do medium drain intervals, just like Redline.

I've never felt the need to look closely at 300V, it's preposterously expensive and so similar to Redline they might as well be the same oil. Why pay a bunch of $$ to import oil when you can buy a domestically produced alternative? If I lived in Europe I'd use 300V over Redline for the same reason.

Just to be clear, I think of long drain intervals as 10,000+ mi these days. That's the factory OCI for most Toyota and Honda cars, and that's how far XOM warrants Regular and AFE Mobil 1. M1 EP is of course 15,000 mi.

[B-R-Z]

Been using 0w20 Mobil one for all oil changes so far. 23,000 miles and no issues. It did burn a little oil in the first 5000 miles IIRC, but not anymore. It's like $22 for a 5qt jug at Walmart, I usually buy all of them on their shelves when they have it.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by gpshumway

When the new 300V formula came out I remember seeing that the TBN had dropped substantially. Maybe it's got an overbased additive package similar to M1 ESP where it stabilizes at ~2.5 TBN for a long time. I modify my previous statement. Looks like it can do medium drain intervals, just like Redline.

I've never felt the need to look closely at 300V, it's preposterously expensive and so similar to Redline they might as well be the same oil. Why pay a bunch of $$ to import oil when you can buy a domestically produced alternative? If I lived in Europe I'd use 300V over Redline for the same reason.

Just to be clear, I think of long drain intervals as 10,000+ mi these days. That's the factory OCI for most Toyota and Honda cars, and that's how far XOM warrants Regular and AFE Mobil 1. M1 EP is of course 15,000 mi.

I get my 300V for free with Subaru Mastercard Rewards!

I think of long drain as the maximum allowed by Subaru (or maybe "long-ish"), since most people change well before that anyway. I'm guessing that the BRZ, and I presume the FR-S?, will be dialed back to 6,000 miles maximum beginning with the 2015 model year like the rest of the Subaru line-up (U.S.).

Not a long drain interval by any definition! I can see them dialing it back for certain cars in certain conditions (hard driven 86's, the turbo models, etc.), but it doesn't make since to do it across the board. Probably easier for dealers to remember.

-Dennis

[qqzj]

Are they really going to change it to 6000 miles? I read some Blackstone UOA here and I was going to go 7500 miles. What should we do now? 6k or 7.5k?

Originally Posted by bluesubie

I get my 300V for free with Subaru Mastercard Rewards!

I think of long drain as the maximum allowed by Subaru (or maybe "long-ish"), since most people change well before that anyway. I'm guessing that the BRZ, and I presume the FR-S?, will be dialed back to 6,000 miles maximum beginning with the 2015 model year like the rest of the Subaru line-up (U.S.).

Not a long drain interval by any definition! I can see them dialing it back for certain cars in certain conditions (hard driven 86's, the turbo models, etc.), but it doesn't make since to do it across the board. Probably easier for dealers to remember.

-Dennis

[AZP Installs]

You guys should NOT be using the 300v in street cars. As per Motul it is not formulated for extended use in street cars. When I Sat down with them this year I specifically asked about it.

As for intervals, as long as you follow the manual you were issued or that they mailed you an addendum for your warranty will be fine.

Personally I do 5k on daily driven street cars. Tracked cars are another story.

Mike

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

You guys should NOT be using the 300v in street cars. As per Motul it is not formulated for extended use in street cars. When I Sat down with them this year I specifically asked about it.

That sounds like the advice of the East Coast distributor which told me the same thing. Fact is, there are enough detergents/dispersants to run it in a street car 5-7k miles and there are uoa's on this forum to back that up.

Over at bobistheoilguy, there was a guy that used it in a tracked and street Audi S4 for up to 8,500 mile intervals backed by used oil analysis as well. As I mentioned, it has been reformulated since that time but a 5-7,000 mile interval is still very doable, depending on driving conditions.

Not just my opinion, but what uoa's have shown.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13286

-Dennis