BRZ/FR-S Vs. Civic SI

[Pakjk89]

More than the driving dynamics, I am thinking the engines were somewhat comparable. Besides the obvious (vtec vs NA) Power figures are almost spot on (last gen civic si). Anyone car to speculate if the engine will act similarly because of this?

[NESW20]

uhh, vtec is na...

[Pakjk89]

Originally Posted by NESW20

uhh, vtec is na...

Yeah but aren't their slight differences between vtec and a normal NA?

[serialk11r]

I don't think there's a such thing as a "normal" NA...VTEC is just a particular variable valve actuation system.
Anyways, the Civic is probably a bit stronger below 3000rpm because of VTEC, the FA20 has pretty crappy low end torque because it only has cam phasing, but the Civic weighs more and has FWD.

[TheBoogieBot]

Originally Posted by Pakjk89

Yeah but aren't their slight differences between vtec and a normal NA?

VTEC is just the way the valves work. Toyota and pretty much every auto maker these days makes their own version of VTEC. They do use VTEC on turbo cars also though.

As for your other question I'd say the Civic SI would be slightly slower then the FRS because the weight of the scion is less.

[NESW20]

different cam profile. not enough to warrant a new category of n/a.

back to topic, i think both cars will be a lot of fun and drive quite well. the civic is going to be more practical for carrying people (especially if you get the sedan) and the K20 responds very well to mods. IMO, you can't go wrong with either car.

[GT]

Originally Posted by Pakjk89

Yeah but aren't their slight differences between vtec and a normal NA?

vtec stands for Variable Valve Timing Engine Control. Its the timing for the cams of the engine which can can SOHC or DOHC (single or double).

EDIT: replied too late lol

[Dark]

Last generation Si has 197hp and 140lb.ft of torque, and it does 6.7sec about the same as FR-S/BRZ 0-62 in 6.9sec. The new generation is 200hp and 170lb.ft of torque. It's faster than the last gen and FR-S/BRZ straight-line( if that's all you care). It will probably be faster than FR-S at the track with summer tire package.

[serialk11r]

Dark I think you should hold off on that conclusion until independent tests are done, there are quite a few factors in the BRZ/FRS's favor such as ~6% less weight, RWD, not to mention that the gears seem too short to hit 60, which means the acceleration under 60 will actually feel stronger...The ft-lb number doesn't mean squat, what's important is that the Hondas don't have a torque dead zone below 3000 while the BRZ does, but a mild launch will take care of that disadvantage.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by NESW20

uhh, vtec is na...

"Yo VTEC just kicked in!"

[Dark]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Dark I think you should hold off on that conclusion until independent tests are done, there are quite a few factors in the BRZ/FRS's favor such as ~6% less weight, RWD, not to mention that the gears seem too short to hit 60, which means the acceleration under 60 will actually feel stronger...The ft-lb number doesn't mean squat, what's important is that the Hondas don't have a torque dead zone below 3000 while the BRZ does, but a mild launch will take care of that disadvantage.

That's why I said "probably". However, this generation Si really produces more power than the old one. It has grown a bit though.

[serialk11r]

Oh snap I just realized the Si loses breath pretty fast at the top of its rev range (200hp at 7000...wtf?), so its off the line acceleration is very high. I guess it's probably a close call then.

[Maxim]

Based on the nearly 200lb weight difference between the cars, and the fact that the BRZ/FR-S is RWD and will actually put the power down in 1st gear, I'd say no contest. BRZ/FR-S will probably be marginally faster in every respect except maybe top-gear acceleration. It will certainly be faster on a track, especially if you put the same tires on both cars.

On a prepared drag-strip, they'll likely be very close, but in real world conditions, where traction is more limited and road conditions aren't perfect, the RWD layout is going to give a massive advantage to the BRZ/FR-S off the line. I've got a high-powered FWD car....launching it is a huge pain in the ass.

[Capt Canuck]

I guess we'll see in 2013 Lightning Laps how it does in comparison:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...1-class-page-3

Obviously different weather and drivers skewer any real direct comparison, but be interesting to see nevertheless.