Thoughts on a 7 speed manual?

[dem00n]

Que?

I have yet to try one, though there seems to be debate if there should be that extra gear.

[m.wood0213]

too many gears

[reni]

Depends on the car... it might actually be fun on a car like the s2000 or rx8.

On the Vette though, totally pointless. That car needs maybe 4 gears, that would actually be more then than having 7 with half of them locked out....

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by reni

Depends on the car... it might actually be fun on a car like the s2000 or rx8.

On the Vette though, totally pointless. That car needs maybe 4 gears, that would actually be more then than having 7 with half of them locked out....

Kind of like having 700HP. You cannot use it 99% of the time so who really needs it? 7 speeds and 700HP (or 500HP) just looks good in the sales brochure and sounds good when you are bragging at the local car meet.

[chrisl]

I don't see the problem. I wish my Cayman had a 7th gear. Keep the 6 it has right now (pretty close ratio, good for high-performance driving), and add a ridiculous overdrive 7th for highway cruising and good gas mileage. Right now, I'm at ~3krpm at 75mph in 6th, and I know the car could pull a taller ratio.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Kind of like having 700HP. You cannot use it 99% of the time so who really needs it? 7 speeds and 700HP (or 500HP) just looks good in the sales brochure and sounds good when you are bragging at the local car meet.

Except the gearbox affects the driving experience and fuel efficiency in daily driving...the Vette's 6 speed gearbox had extremely wide gear spacing; while it can spin tires in the first 3 and while it has a very early torque peak, since it's such a big engine a little bit less rpm can be a lot less fuel in absolute terms (maybe not % though) around the city.

Yes you "don't need" 7 gears, heck you don't even need 5, they might as well ditch gear 4 in the C56 because I don't really use it. But even with your C60 and 2ZZ, are you really perfectly happy? On the freeway with the C60 you're at 3300rpm doing 70 when modern autoboxes are spinning 1.8L engines at 2300. From a performance standpoint as well, a shorter 1st and closer spacing in gears 1-4 would be better imo. I haven't driven a 6 speed but the 2nd gear is only shortened by 5%. Imagine a 7 speed with 4.3 final drive, and ratios 3.4/2.23/1.6/1.25/1.0/0.85/0.67(this could be lower) ish. You'd have a tad under 2600rpm @ 60mph, similar high speed performance to the C64 but slightly more kick in gears 1-3. A 7-1 downshift at 35mph would be so much fun with a 2ZZ.

I feel like any performance car could use 7 (or more) gears. Econobox 4-cylinder engines would be fine with 6. Isn't rowing gears most of the fun?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by reni

Depends on the car... it might actually be fun on a car like the s2000 or rx8.

No kidding. The AP1 definitely needed a 7th gear. I would be on a road trip at 70mph in 6th gear and the engine is a 4k rpms and that wasn't cool.

[nalc]

Not sure how it'd work in terms of shift pattern. I think it'd be confusing to do a HHH and try to do something similar to reverse lockout.

Maybe a Maltese Cross type shift pattern, where 3rd and 4th both both get split, such that you'd do left then forward and back for 1st and 2nd, forward then left and right for 3rd and 4th, right then forward and back for 5th and 6th, and back then left and right for 7th and reverse.

[Kimsey47]

7 is the new 5 spd brah! 8 is the new 6...

lol

[7thgear]

<--------

[frslee]

I wish there was extra gear. Make the 6th little more shorter and make 7 for cruise gear..

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by nalc

Not sure how it'd work in terms of shift pattern.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBAiYRb91vg"]Shifting the 7-speed manual in Porsche's new 2013 911 Carrera - YouTube[/ame]



Personally I don't know what to do with the 5th gear in the Toyobaru, cruising at 40-55, just use 6th, want some adjustability or torque use 4th. Need to downshift to pass on the freeway: straight to 4th. The only time I'd use fifth as more than an intermediate gear would be on the track. I honestly wouldn't have been too disappointed with a 5 speed in this car. Instead of a 7 speed I'd say just make fifth and six a little taller for the Toyobaru, hell just make 6th taller so 5th feels useful.

It's really only useful if you want a magazine to post up good times around a track while still cruising on the freeway <2,500 rpm at 75 mph.

[sklimo]

We already have a @7thgear

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Except the gearbox affects the driving experience and fuel efficiency in daily driving...the Vette's 6 speed gearbox had extremely wide gear spacing; while it can spin tires in the first 3 and while it has a very early torque peak, since it's such a big engine a little bit less rpm can be a lot less fuel in absolute terms (maybe not % though) around the city.

Yes you "don't need" 7 gears, heck you don't even need 5, they might as well ditch gear 4 in the C56 because I don't really use it. But even with your C60 and 2ZZ, are you really perfectly happy? On the freeway with the C60 you're at 3300rpm doing 70 when modern autoboxes are spinning 1.8L engines at 2300. From a performance standpoint as well, a shorter 1st and closer spacing in gears 1-4 would be better imo. I haven't driven a 6 speed but the 2nd gear is only shortened by 5%. Imagine a 7 speed with 4.3 final drive, and ratios 3.4/2.23/1.6/1.25/1.0/0.85/0.67(this could be lower) ish. You'd have a tad under 2600rpm @ 60mph, similar high speed performance to the C64 but slightly more kick in gears 1-3. A 7-1 downshift at 35mph would be so much fun with a 2ZZ.

I feel like any performance car could use 7 (or more) gears. Econobox 4-cylinder engines would be fine with 6. Isn't rowing gears most of the fun?

Adding gears is not necessarily a good thing for performance. Shifting takes time with a manual. Now maybe with dual clutch paddle shifters it would not be a detriment but if you have to row it yourself then going through 7 gears is going to cost time. There is a reason most race cars only have a 5 speeds or sometimes even less. You only use those five and anymore than that is simply more weight and rotating mass.

Yes, I am satisfied with the 6 speed in the C60. With a 4.53 FD it is still geared low enough in sixth that it will pull without downshifting on the highway, the rpm is low enough that it is not deafening at highway speeds and I get 38.3MPG in a car that will run low 14sec 1/4 mile and corner like a go-kart. I cannot see where a 7th gear would improve much of anything. When you only have 1.8L to work with less weight trumps almost everything performance wise.