Speaker Upgrades

[MidnightRunner]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

As far as my car, repairs were completed today & I go to pick her up in a few hours. No chassis or frame damage, just rear bumper damage that was fixed or replaced. Should drive just the same.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

That's good to hear. Be safe out there!


Sent from my LG-P769 using Tapatalk

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Not really.

When I had my sti, I put my rear satellites (type r components) near the front seats on the door cards of the rear doors & it brought the bass part of the stage forward.

Except that isn't rear fill. You used speakers in the rear doors to enhance the bass. Rear fill is primarily for two purposes. In no particular order;
1) at low volumes the rear fill speakers simulate reflections off the back wall of a club or auditorium, making the system sound more live.
2) they make it harder to localize the bass from the subwoofer by making the sound from the back be something closer to full range.

Speakers mounted in the factory location won't do either of those things.

Glad to hear your car is okay.

[SirBrass]

Actually the bass was plenty powerful, but it "felt" like it was all in the back. Setting those tweeters up high near front seats helped the bass feel more forward, since the highs are more directional.

[TRD_86]

Originally Posted by subwaynm

I'm with you; I really like Infinity Speakers. I have them in my 73 VW Super Beetle with a 12" Sub behind the rear seat. Sure would be nice to have them in the Doors of my FR-S. Might look into that sooner than later

I have listened to many car speakers for many years and I still have the kappa perfect 6.1 component on my other honda which is sound so good with top notch clarity. The focal K and utopia is one of the badass "Ferrari" car speaker cost from 1k-$5k ! lol ; well, I will probably go w/ another kappa perfect 6.1 for this car again, but I need to also plan this time to install another 3.5" pair for good midrange on the dash to complete the front "audiophile" sound spectrum rather than just hi & low.

[subwaynm]

Originally Posted by TRD_86

I have listened to many car speakers for many years and I still have the kappa perfect 6.1 component on my other honda which is sound so good with top notch clarity. The focal K and utopia is one of the badass "Ferrari" car speaker cost from 1k-$5k ! lol ; well, I will probably go w/ another kappa perfect 6.1 for this car again, but I need to also plan this time to install another 3.5" pair for good midrange on the dash to complete the front "audiophile" sound spectrum rather than just hi & low.

So first of next year I'm going to do just that
Pair up the Kappa 62.11 & the 329CF which is 3 1/2" and a two way Speaker and from the Kappa line as well. Not component Speaker System but still better than what is in there now.

[the new guy]

So is it a general consensus to remove the dash 3.5 and use component 6.5s in the door replacing the dash tweeters as well or does someone have a recommendation on how to replace/setup the 3.5s?

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

The rear speakers are pretty useless but still vital to sound stage fill. Your main definition and clarity will come from the door and dash speakers and the sub (you should have one if you like audio). The rear speakers just need to be good enough to fill the stage and keep the bass from feeling like it's all coming from the back. Decent 4" speakers can do this. You'll want better if you carry passengers in the back (like if you're a tiny Asian and so are your passengers ), but otherwise, just go with good type-s 4" or the Infinity or Polk equivalents. No need to spend big on custom enclosures and such for those speakers.

That's not entirely true. The rear speakers have a huge impact on your sound imaging. They control how high and together your front imaging is. Having good rear fill makes or breaks a good build. Also the placement of them is actually really good. You do not want them to be pointed toward you. That makes them too bright and distracts from the front stage.

Originally Posted by the new guy

So is it a general consensus to remove the dash 3.5 and use component 6.5s in the door replacing the dash tweeters as well or does someone have a recommendation on how to replace/setup the 3.5s?

I wouldn't say there is a consensus. I will never go with a two way setup up front again after having done a three way in my BRZ. Having midbass only to the 6.5" and a mid-range speaker produces a clearer and cleaner sound. A perfect example is the song Ends by Everlast. On a two way setup, the midbass distorts the mid-range changing the vocals to be more bass heavy. On a three way setup there is no distortion and the vocals are clear and well defined.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by Zippy

That's not entirely true. The rear speakers have a huge impact on your sound imaging. They control how high and together your front imaging is. Having good rear fill makes or breaks a good build. Also the placement of them is actually really good. You do not want them to be pointed toward you. That makes them too bright and distracts from the front stage.

Generally speaking, rear speakers can be very useful. The problem is that in a car this small, the location is extra critical, and the factory location is so bad that you are better off without.
As far as the rear speaker location is concerned, you're going to have to "agree to disagree" with several of us.

I wouldn't say there is a consensus. I will never go with a two way setup up front again after having done a three way in my BRZ. Having midbass only to the 6.5" and a mid-range speaker produces a clearer and cleaner sound. A perfect example is the song Ends by Everlast. On a two way setup, the midbass distorts the mid-range changing the vocals to be more bass heavy. On a three way setup there is no distortion and the vocals are clear and well defined.

The problem with a two way is that the crossover is too high to seamlessly blend the speakers together using the factory locations. If they could be put closer together in the same plane, it might be different.
The three way Hertz system I used crosses from mid to bass at 500 hertz, which means that most of the direction critical sound is coming from the same location on the dash.
I'd be willing to bet the other good 3 ways have similar crossover points.

[the new guy]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

The problem with a two way is that the crossover is too high to seamlessly blend the speakers together using the factory locations. If they could be put closer together in the same plane, it might be different.
The three way Hertz system I used crosses from mid to bass at 500 hertz, which means that most of the direction critical sound is coming from the same location on the dash.
I'd be willing to bet the other good 3 ways have similar crossover points.

Details on your setup please? Amp configuration and the three way is done?

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by the new guy

Details on your setup please? Amp configuration and the three way is done?

Hertz hsk163 with 6.5 bass driver, 3.5 mid and a tweeter. It has passive crossovers. I don't know what the mid/tweeter crossover frequency is, but I would guess somewhere around 3k. It really is moot anyway as the speakers are right next to each other. The mid/bass is 500 hz. There is a passive crossover under each of the front seats. The amp is two channels and mounted to the back of the rear seat. There are line out converters in the dash and the doors are thoroughly sound deadened. The amp's crossover was set to 50 hz just to provide some protection because I'm pushing close to 150 watts/channel through the speakers. I am currently experimenting with subs and it looks like I'll have either a 10" in the trunk or an 8" in the cabin, sealed box either way. The system is amazing without a sub, it just gets even better with one.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

Generally speaking, rear speakers can be very useful. The problem is that in a car this small, the location is extra critical, and the factory location is so bad that you are better off without.
As far as the rear speaker location is concerned, you're going to have to "agree to disagree" with several of us.

I think we need to get together in the spring so you can hear my BRZ. Rear speakers have a HUGE impact on sound stage imaging. In general front/center speakers should be on axis to the listener and rear/side should be off axis. If the rear speakers were on the rear deck as you mentioned they would be bouncing off the glass and on axis with the listener. Most people who do not use rear fill have used on axis rear fill in the past only. Proper speaker positioning is 90% of the battle for good sound. This is one area Toyota has gotten right with the interior.

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

The problem with a two way is that the crossover is too high to seamlessly blend the speakers together using the factory locations. If they could be put closer together in the same plane, it might be different.
The three way Hertz system I used crosses from mid to bass at 500 hertz, which means that most of the direction critical sound is coming from the same location on the dash.
I'd be willing to bet the other good 3 ways have similar crossover points.

In complete agreement. I have Hertz MLK 3 PA Mille in my BRZ for my front stage. My crossover range for my midbass is a little lower, 63-350 hz. Of course I have a DSP in my system for that. The 3" and tweet are on passive crossovers.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I think we need to get together in the spring so you can hear my BRZ. Rear speakers have a HUGE impact on sound stage imaging. In general front/center speakers should be on axis to the listener and rear/side should be off axis. If the rear speakers were on the rear deck as you mentioned they would be bouncing off the glass and on axis with the listener. Most people who do not use rear fill have used on axis rear fill in the past only. Proper speaker positioning is 90% of the battle for good sound. This is one area Toyota has gotten right with the interior.

I'm curious as to the reasoning of off-axis instead of on.
I didn't disagree that rear fill isn't important. I've used it myself in other cars. My problem is with the location of the drivers in this particular car.
I find that speakers located where the rears are in this car always sound far too loud from one relative to the other, unless they are so low in volume as to not contribute anything anyway.

[Zippy]

When setting up a sound stage, the front speakers should be as close to on axis and directional to the listener. Which the 86 twins are with the exception of the mid-bass. With rear fill having them off axis removes the point of origin of the sound allowing it to blend better. The factory location is perfect to produce enough sound to contribute and not be blaring as any on axis rear fill would be. The rear fill factory locations are low enough that they have no real direct path to the listener. The only way I can tell my rear fill is on is if I lean back between the seats or adjust the fader to play on the rear only. Good rear fill should never be able to have their location identified unless the source of the note is coming directly from them. IE a surround sound movie.

With rear deck speakers they bounce off the rear window and are on axis with the listener. This causes them to be distracting from the front stage instead of complimenting it. If the rear fill was on the rear deck on the 86 twins, then I would not have done rear fill.

[Black_Pearl]

Hi guys, first post here

I've had my FR-S for almost a year now and now its time for the big first mod. Which in this case would be an almost complete overhaul of the audio system. Im changing the stock speakers with Alpine's SPR-60c (with crossovers), JL Audio's JX360 2-channel amp, and a Sound Ordinance B-8PTD powered sub. And finally a Clarion EQS746 equalizer. All of this will be used with the stock HU since it pretty much has every feature that I would want in a HU. Plus I'm wrapping the whole car in Stinger sound dampening.

If any of any of you has had any experience with this products I'd like to hear about your experiences. Plus, since I'm new at this whole car audio thing, any advice would be much appreciated.