Snow Tires

[Steve]

my 205/50/17 Michelin x-ice xi2 outperform the stock primacy HPs on dry and wet roads by far

[Kazuya]

Originally Posted by Suberman

First you need around 1,000 km on any new tire before judging its performance. For snow tires especially most good studless winter tires seem hopeless until all the sipes are properly scrubbed in. Fastest way to scrub new tires in is to slide the car around, so you're on the right track there!

Higher pressure is needed for grip as lower pressure leads to larger slip angles for a given amount of road grip. Don't lower pressures in winter tires, run stock pressures or slightly higher.

Remember to set cold pressures allowing for any expected changes in ambient temperature between the time and place you set or check the pressures and the time and place you will be driving.

For every 5C difference in these temperatures add 1 psi for colder and remove 1 psi for expected warmer temperatures. If you check the pressures in a warm garage or tire shop (surprising how many tire monkeys forget or don't know this) at say 20C and you drive out into say -20C ( common enough in Canada) your measured tire pressure in that warm shop will drop by 8 psi (approximately) when you finally park overnight. This really means you must set those "cold" pressures 8 psi too high (not to exceed the sidewalk maximum) which for this car in stick size would be 43 psi. Yes, really.

This is one reason Canada didn't make TPMS mandatory. Canadians MUST constantly check and adjust cold tire pressures to be safe because our climate is so variable and extreme. Your TPMS is set to trigger only after you lose about 6 psi so the tires are dangerously under inflated long before the warning trips.

Finally, there's a huge trade off between studless winter tire grip on ice and snow and bare road grip. Deciding which winter tire to run is like deciding which woman you want to date: what is your objective?

Michelin X ice series of winter tires give superb grip in severe winter conditions but the trade off will be fairly heart stopping poor grip on bare roads. You pays your money and makes your choice. Pirelli Sottozeros on my car are at the other end of the choice range. Fantastic bare road performance and heart stopping poor grip on snow (adequate actually but nowhere near as good as a Michelin X ice in snow).

Smokin' hot Italian girlfriend or the girl you could take home to dinner to meet your Mom? Which is it to be gentlemen?

I'm ordering some tires this week, thank you for your insight.

[FLYFISHR]

Originally Posted by StarshipPoopers

Just put on my Michelin X-Ice3 205/55/16's on the weekend. Still trying to get them dialed in. At 37psi the car was sliding all over the place with slightly wet roads.

I'm finding the same with my Yokahamas, but I have less that 60km on them, I just need for them to settle in. It was like driving my go-kart on slick tires on a wet track. While it's a bit of fun the heart rate jumped a few times.

[jermyzy]

Originally Posted by Suberman

I think there's a good ultra low profile aluminum jack available at CT bearing the nice and reliable Michelin brand name. I have their regular low profile jack which fits under most cars (my lowered Audi S4 for example)

How low is your car? Stock is 5.9 inches ground clearance. Even down as low as 3 inches gives enough clearance for a regular low profile aluminum jack.

You have to have one as obviously you can't change a tire using ramps!

My car is stock, but I've got the regular canadian tire 3 ton jack which is too high to fit under the front lip. Was thinking of getting some ramps to lift the front end up enough to fit the jack underneath.

[Taro]

Looks like I might be one of the last ones to get winters installed. Appointment is in a week and a half.

[chanomatik]

Just got mine on a few hours ago. Now I want it to snow so I can stop sliding in the rain.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by jermyzy

My car is stock, but I've got the regular canadian tire 3 ton jack which is too high to fit under the front lip. Was thinking of getting some ramps to lift the front end up enough to fit the jack underneath.

Look for the Michelin branded aluminum low profile jack. It will easily fit under your car. The BRZ weighs less than 2 tonnes so you don't need a 3 ton jack.

[Spicer66]

Originally Posted by Enemies

So, last year I got myself an incredibly ugly set of steel wheels and would like to cover them up this winter. Anybody have any recommendations for things that look relatively slick considering the situation? :P

Powdercoat those b!tches purple. Not the best photo, but they turned out real nice. Originally these were just generic steelies.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by StarshipPoopers

This.

I picked up that jack a couple of weeks ago and the quality seems really great. Used it to put on my winters and it was a breeze. I got it for $159, it's regular $299. Unfortunately it looks like that sale is over.

Gets as low as 2' 3/4" and as high as 24" which is exactly what I was looking for. Had a good 3-4" under the car to work with before raising it up, the front jacking point and the differential are easily reached.

Also, thanks for your write up earlier. With 250km on the tires now and the pressure set to 36PSI I have been happy. Still breaks loose easier than the stock tires for obvious reasons, but it doesn't feel like such a handful on dry & wet roads and it feels pretty good in corners now.

The biggest problem now is that the feeling of having winter tires is fading and I am finding myself torturing them already. Must behave through this nice weather... It's so tempting to have some fun in the corners leading up to work, until you step out of the car and smell rubber. $$$.

To ease your conscience a bit it helps to remember that tires are no good after five years due to heat cycling and ozone effects hardening the rubber. This is particularly true of snow tires.

Since 30,000 km is not bad durability from a snow tire that means 6,000 km per winter and then they're worn out no matter how much tread remains.

Also, snow tires should not be used down to the wear bars (no tire should actually). 5 mm of tread is not enough to work in snow. Since they start at 9-11 mm originally you only use half the tread.

For summer tires 3mm remaining is the least tread you should have for rain.

Finally, never use a tire more than ten years old for any reason. They are unsafe. Not all tires will fail catastrophically at ten years, most do not. The trouble is you don't know which tire will blow out at ten years. It might be on your car.

[grodenglaive]

Blizzak rant:
I put the snows on last weekend - Blizzak ws-70 for their second season. It sure wasn't hard to tell which ones were on the back before. They will only last 2 winters, which is a good thing since they are the worst handling tires I have ever driven on. They do have good snow and ice grip, but are not very good in the rain. On dry pavement they are the terrible. They just don't want to track straight and I'm constantly fighting with the steering. The previous Blizzak iteration, the ws-60, were not like this at all. I'm going to have to adjust the wheel alignment just to accommodate the tires. I'm very disappointed that Bridgestone screwed up what used to be a good winter tire.

[ZionsWrath]

I think most (all?) snow tires handle generally terribly.

When I was researching snow tires I heard blizzaks are so soft (i.e wear so fast on non snow covered surface) they actually leave a film of black dust on your car. Not sure if that is true but I stayed away. If I drive more often than not on snow covered roads i would have got them though. The reality is in my region I'll probably only need snow tires a dozen or less days of the year.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by grodenglaive

Blizzak rant:
I put the snows on last weekend - Blizzak ws-70 for their second season. It sure wasn't hard to tell which ones were on the back before. They will only last 2 winters, which is a good thing since they are the worst handling tires I have ever driven on. They do have good snow and ice grip, but are not very good in the rain. On dry pavement they are the terrible. They just don't want to track straight and I'm constantly fighting with the steering. The previous Blizzak iteration, the ws-60, were not like this at all. I'm going to have to adjust the wheel alignment just to accommodate the tires. I'm very disappointed that Bridgestone screwed up what used to be a good winter tire.

Absolutely accurate. And now Bridgestone controls Nokian that brand is headed in the same direction. Nokians current winter tire line up is a shadow of its former self. Fact is Bridgestone generally makes poor tires. Ask Ferrari.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

I think most (all?) snow tires handle generally terribly.

When I was researching snow tires I heard blizzaks are so soft (i.e wear so fast on non snow covered surface) they actually leave a film of black dust on your car. Not sure if that is true but I stayed away. If I drive more often than not on snow covered roads i would have got them though. The reality is in my region I'll probably only need snow tires a dozen or less days of the year.

Blizzard W series use multi cell rubber for the top 45% of the tread. Once that's gone they are useless all season rubber. This "technology" was introduced by Metzler in the mid 70's and long since abandoned by the big tire makers outside Asia.

High performance winter tires on the other hand, from Pirelli, Michelin and Continental handle in cold weather just about as well as summer tires do in warm weather. In fact, I used a set of worn out Sottozeros as summer all season tires on my Jaguar XF last summer and they were unbelievably good at 5 mm tread remaining.

If you want high levels of winter performance buy a set of Sottozeros Pilot Alpin 4 or Conti TS 810 or TS 830. If you want better ice grip with good bare road handling get Conti Extreme Winter Contacts, best all around snow tire made at the moment.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Blizzard W series use multi cell rubber for the top 45% of the tread. Once that's gone they are useless all season rubber. This "technology" was introduced by Metzler in the mid 70's and long since abandoned by the big tire makers outside Asia.

High performance winter tires on the other hand, from Pirelli, Michelin and Continental handle in cold weather just about as well as summer tires do in warm weather. In fact, I used a set of worn out Sottozeros as summer all season tires on my Jaguar XF last summer and they were unbelievably good at 5 mm tread remaining.

If you want high levels of winter performance buy a set of Sottozeros Pilot Alpin 4 or Conti TS 810 or TS 830. If you want better ice grip with good bare road handling get Conti Extreme Winter Contacts, best all around snow tire made at the moment.

Sounds like a good way to get great "reviews" from people that have barely used your product and boost sales.

Such is the internet market, sucks...