FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[jonnyozero3]

Originally Posted by fatoni

The frs is too heavy. It would have been killer if it were the size of the Elise

Your mom is too heavy. She would be killer if she were the size of your sister.

(couldn't resist)

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by jonnyozero3

Your mom is too heavy. She would be killer if she were the size of your sister.

(couldn't resist)

at least it was funny...and if im being honest, it isnt even the biggest waste of a post on the forums

[Max Schnell]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

The Zs are too big. They would have been killer if they were the size of the FRS/BRZ.

that's pretty funny. the 370z is 167.2 inch long. That's a whole 1 inch longer than a BRZ, 1 inch taller, and 2 inch wider. I think to the naked eye they look the same size.

The Z is heavier but also comes with another 132 hp at a 400lb weight penalty. Its weight balance is also very close to the BRZ/FRS.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

The Zs are too big. They would have been killer if they were the size of the FRS/BRZ.

Agreed -- and I love mine.

Supercharged or turbo FR-S (potentially) > current 370Z

It just needs... er... about 70-80 more whp (total of 240 - 250 whp) than the N/A version to about match the Z on power:weight.

Do-able! :happy0180:

Hopefully...

[Maxim]

The 370z sucks.

It's so under-engineered that people are returning to the 350z for track cars.

The 370z fails due to two catastophic issues, the brakes and the engine cooling.

Nissan has "tried" to address these two issues with updates to the braking system and cooling system but as you can see if you frequent 370z forums, the changes have not been enough.

You can't do more than 2-3 hot laps in a 370z before the engine overheats so much that the computer goes into limp-mode and severely restricts power due to oil temperature. The issue isn't limited to the track either - those living in hot climates are reporting that they will actually overheat during normal spirited driving, and sometimes in stop/go traffic. Nissan has installed a larger radiator for the '12+ 370z, but it's still not enough for light track duty. Installing aftermarket cooling voids the warranty.

The brakes are an even bigger issue. There are two problems that work together to make the vehicle unsafe to track in stock form. One, the brakes do not have nearly enough air-flow, and the brake fluid will literally boil. There is very little fade up to that point, but once the brake fluid boils, you don't have braking ability. Compound that with the other issue, the "panic stop" programming that is part of the 370z ABS programming, which, when it senses abnormally abrupt brake actuation, will lessen the brake pressure to avoid damaging the rotors.

What happens is this: the brakes overheat and brake pressure is lost due to boiling. If the customer attempts to address this by installing higher performance brake fluid and pads to mitigate the heat issue, braking performance increases, and less pressure is needed to activate the "emergency ABS" feature. So if you don't replace the pads and brake fluid, it overheats, sometimes catastrophically (as Car and Driver found out when they put a brand new 370z Nismo into a wall at over 100mph). If you replace the pads and brake fluid, you still have a lot of brake fade due to the heat issue, but the increased grabbiness of the brakes easily activates the emergency feature, which releases brake pressure.

If those two things happen at the same time....boil the brake fluid and panic by slamming on the brakes, you will have extreme brake fade, PLUS the ABS feature activates at the same time and releases the brakes. That's what caused Car and Driver's crash during testing of the 370z Nismo. It had higher performance pads and fluids, provided by Nismo for Car and Driver's Lightning Lap testing, but it still boiled the fluid, and then the ABS released brake pressure when they panicked and slammed the brake pedal to the floor.

A performance car that attempts to kill the driver in multiple ways during spirited driving is not a performance car, it's a rolling coffin. I would never consider a 370z. I know I would drive it enthusiastically and the cooling and brake issues just completely kill my desire to do that.

Other than those two things it's a great car...it's just...those two things....

[spin9k]

^ well said.... great example of an, ahem, sporty car, that was never the result of the pursuit of perfection.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Maxim

The 370z sucks.

It's so under-engineered that people are returning to the 350z for track cars.

The 370z fails due to two catastophic issues, the brakes and the engine cooling.

Nissan has "tried" to address these two issues with updates to the braking system and cooling system but as you can see if you frequent 370z forums, the changes have not been enough.

You can't do more than 2-3 hot laps in a 370z before the engine overheats so much that the computer goes into limp-mode and severely restricts power due to oil temperature. The issue isn't limited to the track either - those living in hot climates are reporting that they will actually overheat during normal spirited driving, and sometimes in stop/go traffic. Nissan has installed a larger radiator for the '12+ 370z, but it's still not enough for light track duty. Installing aftermarket cooling voids the warranty.

The brakes are an even bigger issue. There are two problems that work together to make the vehicle unsafe to track in stock form. One, the brakes do not have nearly enough air-flow, and the brake fluid will literally boil. There is very little fade up to that point, but once the brake fluid boils, you don't have braking ability. Compound that with the other issue, the "panic stop" programming that is part of the 370z ABS programming, which, when it senses abnormally abrupt brake actuation, will lessen the brake pressure to avoid damaging the rotors.

What happens is this: the brakes overheat and brake pressure is lost due to boiling. If the customer attempts to address this by installing higher performance brake fluid and pads to mitigate the heat issue, braking performance increases, and less pressure is needed to activate the "emergency ABS" feature. So if you don't replace the pads and brake fluid, it overheats, sometimes catastrophically (as Car and Driver found out when they put a brand new 370z Nismo into a wall at over 100mph). If you replace the pads and brake fluid, you still have a lot of brake fade due to the heat issue, but the increased grabbiness of the brakes easily activates the emergency feature, which releases brake pressure.

If those two things happen at the same time....boil the brake fluid and panic by slamming on the brakes, you will have extreme brake fade, PLUS the ABS feature activates at the same time and releases the brakes. That's what caused Car and Driver's crash during testing of the 370z Nismo. It had higher performance pads and fluids, provided by Nismo for Car and Driver's Lightning Lap testing, but it still boiled the fluid, and then the ABS released brake pressure when they panicked and slammed the brake pedal to the floor.

A performance car that attempts to kill the driver in multiple ways during spirited driving is not a performance car, it's a rolling coffin. I would never consider a 370z. I know I would drive it enthusiastically and the cooling and brake issues just completely kill my desire to do that.

Other than those two things it's a great car...it's just...those two things....

I knew things were bad just didn't know they were that bad.

[crazyyankeefan]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I knew things were bad just didn't know they were that bad.

No, they're not. This is simply coming for a jealous person who can't afford one. 370Z is a great car in almost every aspect. This is not meant to knock FRS/BRZ either, which I think will be a good car as well.

[MarkRacerX]

Originally Posted by crazyyankeefan

No, they're not. This is simply coming for a jealous person who can't afford one. 370Z is a great car in almost every aspect. This is not meant to knock FRS/BRZ either, which I think will be a good car as well.

They are a great car! Tons of great reviews and there are some stories out there for sure about oil temps/brakes.

Before I had my BMW 135i I was really looking into the 370Z, equal Power/mid 13's in the 1/4 stock and so on. Those are known issues, but many tests they didn't experience brake issues.

Sad stuff about the oil cooler deal, personally I really like the Z but I need more room/backseat. So that's why went with the 135i. Now that car lacked an LSD! 300TQ at 3k just spins so easily. Great mpg too I got close to 30mpg on trips 65-70mph!

Oddly the NISMO one didn't seem to show it was faster, I liked the aero pkg and seats and such, but didn't seem to show real perf/handling over standard Sport model.

[#87]

Originally Posted by crazyyankeefan

No, they're not. This is simply coming for a jealous person who can't afford one. 370Z is a great car in almost every aspect. This is not meant to knock FRS/BRZ either, which I think will be a good car as well.

Is that true about multiple magazines having problems tracking the car? If so, do you think those companies are jealous and can't afford one?

[crazyyankeefan]

Originally Posted by #87

Is that true about multiple magazines having problems tracking the car? If so, do you think those companies are jealous and can't afford one?

There are no cars that are "perfect". If you want to track your car hard, you should install the oil cooler of course. The same could be said for cars other than Z. On top of that, more than likely, you're gonna add a few mods to it if you're a track regular.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by crazyyankeefan

No, they're not. This is simply coming for a jealous person who can't afford one. 370Z is a great car in almost every aspect. This is not meant to knock FRS/BRZ either, which I think will be a good car as well.

The brakes can stand to be upgraded (and some folks were complaining about ice mode issues), but it's not the engine coolant that overheats -- it's an oil cooling problem that people who track the car run into. Solution: Fit an oil cooler.

Yeah... that was an overly harsh criticism.

If indeed people prefer the 350Z for the track (which has similar oil temp issues and handles like a cow by comparison) I'm guessing it has more to do with the fact that's less expensive to maintain than the newer 370Z.

All car reviews unanimously applauded the 370Z for being an improvement over it's older brother.

This isn't fanboy-ism, it's just a summary of the facts. 370Z > 350Z (except, perhaps, in cost to maintain for the track).

[crazyyankeefan]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

This isn't fanboy-ism, it's just a summary of the facts. 370Z > 350Z (except, perhaps, in cost to maintain for the track).

Well, it will cost you arms and legs to track your car regularly, no matter what car you drive. Same could be said for FRS/BRZ.

[Zaku]

I kinda like the defanged car but I like friendly looking cars lol... not feeling the LED

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