You're doing it wrong: common driver errors

[ZionsWrath]

Not sure I saw my biggest mistake on the list there. Maybe as a caveat mentioned in 1. I am bad at stick shift and find myself focusing too much on rev matching the down shifts, by the time I'm turning in I am going way slower entry speed than is possible...

[Element Tuning]

I see this a lot with newer drivers because let's face it, heel-toe is glamorous It however is completely unnecessary with a synchronized transmission and in most cars I can't even do it without displacing a hip. Ha ha.

I can't seem to hold consistent and maximum brake pressure while heel toeing is my problem so it causes me to lose time. If I'm fumbling with the shifter or the pedals it takes my concentration away from maximum brake pressure, maintaining car control, and holding the perfect line for corner entry so you have the best exit speed.

I get it wrong often but consider braking the most important aspect to a perfect lap.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

I see this a lot with newer drivers because let's face it, heel-toe is glamorous It however is completely unnecessary with a synchronized transmission and in most cars I can't even do it without displacing a hip. Ha ha.

I can't seem to hold consistent and maximum brake pressure while heel toeing is my problem so it causes me to lose time. If I'm fumbling with the shifter or the pedals it takes my concentration away from maximum brake pressure, maintaining car control, and holding the perfect line for corner entry so you have the best exit speed.

I get it wrong often but consider braking the most important aspect to a perfect lap.

I've done both the HT downshift under braking and the brake-shift into whatever gear is needed directly-blip, release clutch and trail brake methods.

I usually HT downshift under braking because it's more natural/instinctive, I actually have to think the other way and thinking is bad for me.

Doing the full brake, shift from 5th to 2nd (or whatever), and then release clutch/trailbrake method in a RWD car is prone for novices to spin also when they forget to blip the throttle and instead temporarily lose all traction in the rear while trail braking

[Element Tuning]

Eek I don't do that (clutch in or brake in neutral). It's a balance, use engine braking, but don't use it too much to upset the contact patch. I apply maximum brake pressure (slicks and downforce) in gear, if I have pushed it deep and the pressure is maxed, I will be fighting for car control, once I have control, downshift and ease out clutch to prevent driveline shock to the rear, and I always go through every gear. I just never put the downshifts at redline unless my brakes are failing. LOL!

In my STi I can get away with a lot more engine braking since its directed to the front and rear axles, vs only the rear in the FRS.

The reason I see even in top level cars the whole brake with the clutch in, skip gears and release under trail braking it mostly due to a super high compression V8 with a dog box. They brake in gear but when its time to downshift, they clutch in until ready to select the corner exit gear. You see this with Nascar on road courses still.

[ZionsWrath]

How do you down shift without blipping the throttle? When I get the revs wrong it jerks hard and chirps tires I can't imagine if I just put it in gear without any throttle blip.

If there is an easier way I'm all for it, maybe you can link a video so I can learn.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Eek I don't do that (clutch in or brake in neutral). It's a balance, use engine braking, but don't use it too much to upset the contact patch. I apply maximum brake pressure (slicks and downforce) in gear, if I have pushed it deep and the pressure is maxed, I will be fighting for car control, once I have control, downshift and ease out clutch to prevent driveline shock to the rear, and I always go through every gear. I just never put the downshifts at redline unless my brakes are failing. LOL!

In my STi I can get away with a lot more engine braking since its directed to the front and rear axles, vs only the rear in the FRS.

The reason I see even in top level cars the whole brake with the clutch in, skip gears and release under trail braking it mostly due to a super high compression V8 with a dog box. They brake in gear but when its time to downshift, they clutch in until ready to select the corner exit gear. You see this with Nascar on road courses still.

I've left it in gear before also but have never noticed any real difference. I'm not good enough to

[Ryephile]

I think it's a good article to start conversation. It's not meant to be a bible, just a guide to get your noggin thinking about tightening the loose nut behind the wheel and stop blaming the car. I see it often; some guy thinks he's Schumi-incarnate in the pits but when you see him on-track he's a fidgety mess with little grace and poor car control. Getting your ego out of the way and accepting that you have room for improvement works wonders for letting you learn. This is why really good drivers usually aren't cocky; they know there's always more to learn. Confidence and cockiness are not the same.

There are of course many more things we do wrong behind the wheel, but that would be for you and your coach/instructor to discuss in detail.

Personally, left-foot braking is my final frontier for basic skills. As always, seat time, seat time, seat time.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

I think it's a good article to start conversation. It's not meant to be a bible, just a guide to get your noggin thinking about tightening the loose nut behind the wheel and stop blaming the car. I see it often; some guy thinks he's Schumi-incarnate in the pits but when you see him on-track he's a fidgety mess with little grace and poor car control. Getting your ego out of the way and accepting that you have room for improvement works wonders for letting you learn. This is why really good drivers usually aren't cocky; they know there's always more to learn. Confidence and cockiness are not the same.

There are of course many more things we do wrong behind the wheel, but that would be for you and your coach/instructor to discuss in detail.

Personally, left-foot braking is my final frontier for basic skills. As always, seat time, seat time, seat time.

But are often mistaken for one another... :p

[feldy]

After 3 years of hardcore autocross I'm still a villain of the happy hands issues.

[CarGuy]

Good article to remind yourself of where your head should be at on the track. Need... more... seat... time...

#4 Happy Hands - well my build (short, stocky and barrel chested) prevents me from crossing my arms while turning the wheel in some corners so I switch my hands to 12 and 6 before the braking zone so I can extend my wheel rotating range. I still have to concentrate on releasing my grip of death in those high pucker factor corners too.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

How do you down shift without blipping the throttle? When I get the revs wrong it jerks hard and chirps tires I can't imagine if I just put it in gear without any throttle blip.

If there is an easier way I'm all for it, maybe you can link a video so I can learn.

Well you don't need to blip the throttle to change gears but I know what you're getting at which is skidding the rear tires when compression braking.
-This could be attributed to "popping" out the clutch instead of dragging it out. Release the clutch on your downshift like you would leaving from a stop.
-It could also happen when you downshift too fast....basically you are not matching your wheels speed with each gear change but instead a downshift is made too early which drags the wheel speed back up to redline too quickly.
-Too much assist from engine braking to one axle.

There is definitely a difference in fun lapping and actually running a qualifying lap. Most people don't use maximum brake pressure, they use a firm but fixed amount of pressure. Sometimes its due to tire limitations and less than maximum brake pressure is enough to engage abs. If my butt isn't floating off the seat as I'm trying to push my foot through the firewall I didn't brake deep enough. LOL!

Just keep in mind I run non DOT 285 slicks, in a qualifying compound, and about 600 lbs of downforce so I can't engage ABS when braking deep.

My point is don't heal toe if its not perfectly natural and instictive because if you have to think about anything other than braking you'll mess up or lose time. Also blipping the throttle is only to match engine rpm to the next lower gear so on a non syncro transmission the gear lever will select the gear easily. You can still slam the dogbox into the next lower gear and it won't skid the rear wheels because the clutch is in.

So the end goal whether you blip the throttle or not is that by time you release the clutch you don't skid, which means the gear you select matches the wheel speed in the window of acceptable rpm (won't lock up wheels).

I wrote all that crap and in the end all that really matters is that you drag your clutch out, don't "pop" it out under braking.

FWIW I was taught by a very high level professional (in his era) to never compression brake, clutch in so you don't wear out the engine or gearbox, because the brakes are good enough. I guess I don't listen well

[Sonolin]

Good thread . We need more stuff like this IMO track forum is kind of dead.

Trying to get my car together for some track days and the info definitely helps a lot. I know I'm guilty of OP a lot during hard driving.

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Well you don't need to blip the throttle to change gears but I know what you're getting at which is skidding the rear tires when compression braking.
-This could be attributed to "popping" out the clutch instead of dragging it out. Release the clutch on your downshift like you would leaving from a stop.
-It could also happen when you downshift too fast....basically you are not matching your wheels speed with each gear change but instead a downshift is made too early which drags the wheel speed back up to redline too quickly.
-Too much assist from engine braking to one axle.

There is definitely a difference in fun lapping and actually running a qualifying lap. Most people don't use maximum brake pressure, they use a firm but fixed amount of pressure. Sometimes its due to tire limitations and less than maximum brake pressure is enough to engage abs. If my butt isn't floating off the seat as I'm trying to push my foot through the firewall I didn't brake deep enough. LOL!

Just keep in mind I run non DOT 285 slicks, in a qualifying compound, and about 600 lbs of downforce so I can't engage ABS when braking deep.

My point is don't heal toe if its not perfectly natural and instictive because if you have to think about anything other than braking you'll mess up or lose time. Also blipping the throttle is only to match engine rpm to the next lower gear so on a non syncro transmission the gear lever will select the gear easily. You can still slam the dogbox into the next lower gear and it won't skid the rear wheels because the clutch is in.

So the end goal whether you blip the throttle or not is that by time you release the clutch you don't skid, which means the gear you select matches the wheel speed in the window of acceptable rpm (won't lock up wheels).

I wrote all that crap and in the end all that really matters is that you drag your clutch out, don't "pop" it out under braking.

FWIW I was taught by a very high level professional (in his era) to never compression brake, clutch in so you don't wear out the engine or gearbox, because the brakes are good enough. I guess I don't listen well

I'll give it a try. No one ever explicitly told me it was bad but I guess I thought dragging the clutch up was essentially like riding it in terms of being bad

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

I'll give it a try. No one ever explicitly told me it was bad but I guess I thought dragging the clutch up was essentially like riding it in terms of being bad

Nothing in racing is black and white. If I accepted that I couldn't turn in as fast as I wanted, that I couldn't go hard on the throttle until past the apex, or the fastest line was always the line that used all the track, I wouldn't be breaking track records and winning races.

You have to try the advice you get and apply it where it works for you and when it doesn't adopt your own techniques. Transponders (time) and telemetry don't line. I can't tell you how often something felt slower but was actually faster.

Are you after clutch life or are you after a faster lap?

I have gotten more bad advice than good but when you have the ears of some winning pros you better listen. Here are some fundamentals I've gotten from these guys and as simple as it may seem it has proven to up my game.

As a driver of your car your job is to manage your tire's contact patch. This means smooth inputs not only for steering but also when downshifting.

Extend your straights! Maximize your time going fast and minimize your time going slow.

Follow the grip which may not be on the traditional line.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow