Top Gear Magazine Review of Subaru BRZ and Toyota GT86

[Dunkindoanuts]

has anyone seen this magazine in stands today? Want to buy it...

[coyote]

Originally Posted by AeroWRX

Toyota: I am imagining this dream car!!

Toyota did build their dream car. It's basically an ugly Ferrari for twice the cost.

It would have been cheaper for them to buy 16% of Ferrari, stick a Scion badge on a 599GTB and claim it was all their work.

We all live and learn.

[ahausheer]

Article mentioned different engine tunes???????

[Revird]

What lovely bias.

This article is terrible.

IMO.

[00NissanNinja]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I thought it was the BRZ is perfect and the FRS oversteers. I remember reading that.

I remember that as well, It was one of those solo tests with the FR-S. No direct comparison just said its easier to entice oversteer, while the BRZ is pretty neutral. Although since the BRZ supposedly has stiffer springs and dampers in the rear I would expect it to exhibit more oversteer (assuming both front spring damper assemblies are the same in the GT86 and BRZ which they probably aren't)

[Want.FR-S]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I thought it was the BRZ is perfect and the FRS oversteers. I remember reading that.

The reports from Japan about 86 and BRZ are like: 86 tends to oversteer a bit while the BRZ is a bit under, just like many stock cars.

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

No it's the other way around I read in a different thread. There was even a thread about the possibility of the FRS being to extreme for regular people because of its neutral handling characteristics and lift throttle oversteer.

I thought The lift throttle oversteer thing was on the early prototype. It is not happening on the fr-s tested in Japan, although Ken Gushi had a blast by drifting a lot during testing.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by AeroWRX

I think it was closer to BRZ is perfect, FRS understeers but all these are just rumors based on not enough driving around

Originally Posted by 00NissanNinja

I remember that as well, It was one of those solo tests with the FR-S. No direct comparison just said its easier to entice oversteer, while the BRZ is pretty neutral. Although since the BRZ supposedly has stiffer springs and dampers in the rear I would expect it to exhibit more oversteer (assuming both front spring damper assemblies are the same in the GT86 and BRZ which they probably aren't)

Looks like the three of us remember reading the same thing. If I have free time I will go back and see if I can find it again.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by CLTBRZ

I don't really understand the "I'm buying (blank) brand because I want them to get my money instead" or "because Subaru engineered the vehicle" crowds. The models will perform similarly, with the biggest differences involving amenities (HID/LED strip lights, auto CC, etc.) and styling. Personally I prefer the subdued rather than aggressive styling of the BRZ vs. FRS, and the amenities included in the BRZ packages that will likely be unavailable with the FRS which resulted in my BRZ decision.

It's not like these are two completely different cars, but they're not so close that there wouldn't be some sort of a preference to buy one over the other - It's not the best comparison, since the vehicles aren't identical, but if you were looking at a BMW 1 series and a Mini and you liked the included amenities, price point, and styling of the Mini but you would rather give BMW your money (because they designed and engineered both vehicles), you'd buy the BMW instead? Nowhere in that equation, for me anyways, does it make sense to buy the BMW. I just don't get that logic at all.

Edit: fail grammar

FAILED.
1series is RWD. Mini(s) are FWD.(not sure about the new SUV)
Back to topic, I really need to test drive both cars. I will start with the least favorite one, which is FR-S.

[Stigmaru]

Originally Posted by Dark

FAILED.
1series is RWD. Mini(s) are FWD.(not sure about the new SUV)
Back to topic, I really need to test drive both cars. I will start with the least favorite one, which is FR-S.

I thought Mini was just a brand name created by BMW. There is no company called Mini. The original Mini cooper was made by BMC which doesn't exist anymore.

So I'd say the example isn't close to be valid either.

Issue is we have two cars which are virtual identical aside from amenities and respective Subaru or Toyota suspension. So any reasons for choosing one over the other is fair game IMHO ..even if it is that you like one company over the other

[nrclptcnsmniak]

I think it's perfectly fine to choose over brand dedication. When we go to the grocery store and see co co puffs and then next it the generic brand in the bag unless I am tight on money I go with the co co puffs even though the two brands are extremely similar in texture and taste I still go with the co co puffs. I see this is the same with these two cars loosely of course. And I see nothing wrong going with the puffs

[wait_what?]

How much is this car (86) going to cost in europe (in euros), over 30k?

[Solrac]

I'm still torn between the two cars. I think I'm leaning toward the brz exterior looks but I'm not sure I would want their nav as it doesn't seem to be that good. I also like the red accents on the steering wheel on the frs. I'm also not convinced with the silver dash on the brz. I also hope subaru offer different wheels.

[CLTBRZ]

Originally Posted by AeroWRX

I thought Mini was just a brand name created by BMW. There is no company called Mini. The original Mini cooper was made by BMC which doesn't exist anymore.

So I'd say the example isn't close to be valid either.

Issue is we have two cars which are virtual identical aside from amenities and respective Subaru or Toyota suspension. So any reasons for choosing one over the other is fair game IMHO ..even if it is that you like one company over the other

That's why I prefaced the example with "it's not the best comparison because they are not identical" - however the point was that when cross shopping two vehicles (regardless of how similar or different those vehicles are) I don't understand why if you like everything about one of them better, excluding the brand, that you would purchase the brand you prefer instead. I didn't want to use another badge engineered example (a la Lincoln/Ford or GMC/Chevy) because unlike Subaru/Toyota, those companies are wholly owned by their parent company.

The original statement inferred "I originally liked the Toyota better, but now (after all of the "who engineered what?" drama) I'd rather give Subaru my money", which is what I didn't understand the logic behind.

[Stigmaru]

Originally Posted by CLTBRZ

That's why I prefaced the example with "it's not the best comparison because they are not identical" - however the point was that when cross shopping two vehicles (regardless of how similar or different those vehicles are) I don't understand why if you like everything about one of them better, excluding the brand, that you would purchase the brand you prefer instead. I didn't want to use another badge engineered example (a la Lincoln/Ford or GMC/Chevy) because unlike Subaru/Toyota, those companies are wholly owned by their parent company.

The original statement inferred "I originally liked the Toyota better, but now (after all of the "who engineered what?" drama) I'd rather give Subaru my money", which is what I didn't understand the logic behind.

I'd say this is the first case in history of such an automobile was created where one company essentially did most of the work, and another company claimed it was theirs. In this case, both companies are separate entities and each one will benefit pretty much individually from the car. (Toyota slightly more due to buying 16.5% of Subaru before creating this car). Wouldn't matter if all the spoils of war goes back to one company because it's just really one cash pool at the end.

It has to do with principles more than anything else. If both Toyota and Subaru agreed to announce the production model on the same day and/or even together we could've skipped most of the drama. Since Toyota bought almost a quarter of Subaru, there was no issue for splitting the spoils of war. But imagine if you were the engineers who poured your blood and sweat into the car and can't wait to announce it Monday morning... only to have someone else come in and say they did most of the work and announce it first Sunday night. How would you feel?

Secondly, both cars are identical aside from some subjective aesthetics on the exterior (include internal seat material and color palette). Subaru/Toyota tuning and spring rates etc. can are all very superficial modifications which can be changed by the end user anyways. So we even have less reasons to choose between the two other than subjective preference.

I think the case of the FT86, it is most definitely valid to choose Subaru over Toyota just out of principle rather than subjective preference, or even brand loyalty. As an engineer, I would totally call foul play in this matter and have a hard time bringing myself to support Toyota with my money. It's the ultimate dishonor in the engineering world to do such a thing.

It's just hilarious that very shortly after Toyota announced the production model, Subaru announced the STI concept. It really does show who was more ready due to Subaru easily pulling something under their sleeves since they have the bulk of the engineering and design done.