Wider wheels: need an alignment?

[OakmanSmalls]

Car is being dropped on eibach sport line springs very soon. I know I need an alignment after the drop but this is my question:
I'm upgrading to a set of 17x9 +44 wheels. Tires will be stock. I want to know if I shoul hold off on the spring and alignment until I get the new rims on or will a wider wheel not effect the alignment/handling of the car?

Any advice is appreciated. Not in a hurry to do the springs if it will benifit to wait

[Clipdat]

You're putting 215s on 17x9s? That's probably going to affect your handling more than not having an alignment right away.

[yoshiharadesign]

we recommend any drop or even wheel and tire change to have alignment done. Remember that you are altering the suspension geometry with any of those changes.

[wparsons]

How exactly are you altering the suspension geometry (specifically the parts affected by an alignment) by changing wheels or tires?

The ONLY thing that can change with a wheel change is the offset, but that's not something you can change with an alignment so it's irrelevant.

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by wparsons

How exactly are you altering the suspension geometry (specifically the parts affected by an alignment) by changing wheels or tires?

The ONLY thing that can change with a wheel change is the offset, but that's not something you can change with an alignment so it's irrelevant.

the wheel and tire are extensions of the suspension parts and the actual contact patch connecting car to the road. any changes in offset and tire size will change the handling... If looking at wheels/tires/suspension together, the geometry is changed.. thus alignments are always recommended... Alignments involve toe, camber, and caster. So, when lowering the suspension or even just tire changes, it is better in the long run to have the car alignment done again.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

the wheel and tire are extensions of the suspension parts and the actual contact patch connecting car to the road. any changes in offset and tire size will change the handling... If looking at wheels/tires/suspension together, the geometry is changed.. thus alignments are always recommended...

BS. I totally agree with suspension changes, even if you just pulled it apart and put the stock parts back in, but to say you need an alignment because you're running wider tires or a different offset is false.

Out of curiosity, what alignment specs would you set my car to running 225/45/17's on 17x8 +45, and why would you deviate from the factory alignment?

I fully realize that the factory alignment specs aren't the fastest specs around a track, but that doesn't mean you need to adjust based on wheel offset. If you're that concerned about on track performance you need to factor in a lot more data than just width and offset, actual logged data like tire temps across the width of the tire, pressure, etc all come into play.

None of that matters for the average street driver though. The only other time I can see this mattering is if you're setting camber for fender clearance, then you would need the final wheels to get the clearance right.

To answer the OP's question, just get the alignment after the suspension install, changing wheels won't change the alignment at all. A good number of alignment racks require removing the wheels anyway.

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by wparsons

BS. I totally agree with suspension changes, even if you just pulled it apart and put the stock parts back in, but to say you need an alignment because you're running wider tires or a different offset is false.

Out of curiosity, what alignment specs would you set my car to running 225/45/17's on 17x8 +45, and why would you deviate from the factory alignment?

I fully realize that the factory alignment specs aren't the fastest specs around a track, but that doesn't mean you need to adjust based on wheel offset. If you're that concerned about on track performance you need to factor in a lot more data than just width and offset, actual logged data like tire temps across the width of the tire, pressure, etc all come into play.

None of that matters for the average street driver though. The only other time I can see this mattering is if you're setting camber for fender clearance, then you would need the final wheels to get the clearance right.

To answer the OP's question, just get the alignment after the suspension install, changing wheels won't change the alignment at all. A good number of alignment racks require removing the wheels anyway.

If your wheel size and offset and tire size are fairly close to factory, of course then factory alignment settings should be fine.. However, given the variances of widths and tire size deviation from stock, the greater the variance, the greater the need to factor those changes into the alignment process. Especially since you can see on the forum how diverse the sizes go that deviate from factory settings, why would anyone not perform an alignment with wheels and tires to prevent uneven wear?

Its like hub rings, there are people out there who says its not needed... but from a manufacturers side, we recommend them because it is just one less factor to contend with in case there are shaking or vibrations on the car... that being said, as a wheel manufacturer, we always would recommend alignment after wheels and tires are put on to protect the consumer.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by yoshiharadesign

the wheel and tire are extensions of the suspension parts and the actual contact patch connecting car to the road. any changes in offset and tire size will change the handling... If looking at wheels/tires/suspension together, the geometry is changed.. thus alignments are always recommended... Alignments involve toe, camber, and caster. So, when lowering the suspension or even just tire changes, it is better in the long run to have the car alignment done again.

Jesus, do you pull the air filter out and say it needs to be replaced when you sell a set of wheels, too?

Better yet, how are you validating the "handling differences" between wheels? The alignment specs are numbers that are going to be identical whether you're on stock wheels or these. So, what, you're going to put a new set of wheels on a car, put it on the rack, verify that the tie rods haven't been touched, pocket $90 and call it a day?

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by qoncept

these

Damn, now that's ballin'.

[OakmanSmalls]

So what I'm gathering is that the wheels may affect my handling characteristics but not due to alignment. I think I'll get it aligned w the stock wheels then just put my new ones on. Once I wear through the tires I'll get another alignment as I'll be putting wider rubber on. (215 on a 9" rim is about as stretched as I'd ever want, definitely not about the stance scene.) I appreciate the insight and would like to continue learning more. So any other voices are more than welcome

[GoSharks]

Don't the 17x9's hit the tie rods at full lock?

[OakmanSmalls]

Originally Posted by GoSharks

Don't the 17x9's hit the tie rods at full lock?

??? I hope not. I've seen much crazy fitments than this but maybe somebody can answer that

[yoshiharadesign]

Originally Posted by OakmanSmalls

So what I'm gathering is that the wheels may affect my handling characteristics but not due to alignment. I think I'll get it aligned w the stock wheels then just put my new ones on. Once I wear through the tires I'll get another alignment as I'll be putting wider rubber on. (215 on a 9" rim is about as stretched as I'd ever want, definitely not about the stance scene.) I appreciate the insight and would like to continue learning more. So any other voices are more than welcome

You are free to do what ever you want on the vehicle. We are not affiliated with any alignment shop to make extra money off anyone. It is just standard protocol as a safety precaution promoted by tire manufacturers and installation shops to provide optimal wear and performance.

As to others thinking its ok not to align the vehicle after changing even just tires, thats their choice. In our experience, we have fitted on slightly wider tires and slightly bigger tires on stock suspension set up without alignment to compensate after. The results were uneven wear on the tires.

[qoncept]

As to those implying there is ANY different to your alignment after changing wheels or tires.. I don't even know what to say. There isn't. Period. To suggest it's even possible is crazy. Do you readjust your belt when you put on a different pair of shoes?