Engine idle chirping (cricket) noise poll.

[misooscar]

Yes, my 2014 with 1800 miles, started making loud cricket noises around 1200 miles

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[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by litemup

Don't worry, Prog, I think Hunter's more annoyed at us than the crickets. Ethanol-free if you can find it. Zero crickets while waiting for a real fix.

From a fatigue standpoint, whether it's the Tacoma Narrows bridge or a squeaky fuel pump, flutter is NOT normal. Waiting for the pump to quiet down is basically waiting for the offending components to "break in" - hopefully before they break.

E0 is almost non-existent around here other than some marine pumps, and they are legally not allowed to put gas in cars. Not to mention the octane rating is like 86 or something (ironically). After three model years, I can be pretty sure Toyobaru isn't looking for a "Real Fix"

I'm not disagreeing with you from the fatigue standpoint--the pump may still fail. But, for something with such high tolerances with this engine, the PSI of the fuel pump has to stay pretty high, and if it was wearing that quickly, the car would be throwing codes like crazy due to improper fuel pressure at the injectors.

My hypothesis at this point is that the crickets fading is due to normal wear of the pump. I'd also love to see two pumps pulled apart, one that used E0 all the time, another that used E10 and compare the wear. That would tell us immediately if there is a degraded performance. I'd love to know what the forecast lifetime of these pumps is supposed to be.

[Lawn_Mower]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

E0 is almost non-existent around here other than some marine pumps, and they are legally not allowed to put gas in cars. Not to mention the octane rating is like 86 or something (ironically). After three model years, I can be pretty sure Toyobaru isn't looking for a "Real Fix"

I'm not disagreeing with you from the fatigue standpoint--the pump may still fail. But, for something with such high tolerances with this engine, the PSI of the fuel pump has to stay pretty high, and if it was wearing that quickly, the car would be throwing codes like crazy due to improper fuel pressure at the injectors.

My hypothesis at this point is that the crickets fading is due to normal wear of the pump. I'd also love to see two pumps pulled apart, one that used E0 all the time, another that used E10 and compare the wear. That would tell us immediately if there is a degraded performance. I'd love to know what the forecast lifetime of these pumps is supposed to be.

Volkswagen had a fairly major issue with their high pressure fuel pumps that doesn't present itself until late in the cars life. It could cause major issues with the engine if overlooked and had very few symptoms until it was far too late to repair it. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but just saying that it is possible that this could be a problem that they're just not willing to admit yet.

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by litemup

From a fatigue standpoint... flutter is NOT normal.

The cause of the noise according to Subaru is aeration in the fuel. I'm not sure it's a mechanical fatigue issue.

[Aaron_blatherwick]

[QUOTE=strat61caster;1809730]I've noticed a resonance at 70-80, like the wind whistling over the mirrors but it goes away when I go faster, it doesn't get louder. So I'm not sure what you've got going on, might be the same, might not.



I can get the noise to stop with letting off the throttle, comes right back with light load and seems to quiet up with wot

[litemup]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

The cause of the noise according to Subaru is aeration in the fuel. I'm not sure it's a mechanical fatigue issue.

The aeration can be considered the broad-frequency forcing function. (Imagine white noise from a loudspeaker.)

The fatigue, if a factor, would come from the cyclic loading of those parts at resonance.

If the resonating parts were the reed and seat of a check valve, something "might" eventually give up the ghost. Yes, I'm speaking entirely in hypothetical terms. I have zero idea what that pump looks like on the inside.

Hunter, your point about error codes is duly noted. My last car had an OBD-I box. It's going to take a while for me to adjust my mental landscape.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by litemup

The aeration can be considered the broad-frequency forcing function. (Imagine white noise from a loudspeaker.)

The fatigue, if a factor, would come from the cyclic loading of those parts at resonance.

If the resonating parts were the reed and seat of a check valve, something "might" eventually give up the ghost. Yes, I'm speaking entirely in hypothetical terms. I have zero idea what that pump looks like on the inside.

Hunter, your point about error codes is duly noted. My last car had an OBD-I box. It's going to take a while for me to adjust my mental landscape.

I'm assuming that there is a code for such a thing. For all I know, the engine shuts off from fuel starvation if the pump can't keep up and never throws a code. My assumption is with how finely tuned engines are these days, that there may be a sensor for that.

[litemup]

Originally Posted by Lawn_Mower

Volkswagen had a fairly major issue with their high pressure fuel pumps that doesn't present itself until late in the cars life. It could cause major issues with the engine if overlooked and had very few symptoms until it was far too late to repair it.

What were the major issues? Were the engines running lean & hot? That's what I was picturing as a long-term consequence.

But our high-tech super-duper ECM would detect all that, no? (NOT sarcasm)

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by litemup

What were the major issues? Were the engines running lean & hot? That's what I was picturing as a long-term consequence.

But our high-tech super-duper ECM would detect all that, no? (NOT sarcasm)

Nope, catastrophic failures, apparantly a $10k fix as it would send shrapnel through the fueling system on the TDI's.

Here's a 400+ page thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=308323

On the gas engines the HPFP is driven off the camshaft and that interface can suffer premature wear that can lead to particles in the engine, seems less costly and more preventable:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73095

[CruiseZen]

Bought the car in February 2014. So far I can only hear the crickets when I'm outside the car when its running. I've only used 93 octane fuel (with 10% ethanol) since I bought it. Ethanol free fuel is just too far away to make it practical to fill up there.

[Lawn_Mower]

Originally Posted by litemup

What were the major issues? Were the engines running lean & hot? That's what I was picturing as a long-term consequence.

But our high-tech super-duper ECM would detect all that, no? (NOT sarcasm)

Neither, it was wear causing material to contaminate the oil.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Nope, catastrophic failures, apparantly a $10k fix as it would send shrapnel through the fueling system on the TDI's.

Here's a 400+ page thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=308323

On the gas engines the HPFP is driven off the camshaft and that interface can suffer premature wear that can lead to particles in the engine, seems less costly and more preventable:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73095

The gas engine specifically is what I was talking about. It's fairly easily preventable if you maintain it (even though Volkswagen doesn't acknowledge it for what it is, a wear item). Problem is if you let it go to long, the metal can/will ruin rod bearings, and damage the cam journals in the head.

There was also the issue with seals on the pump failing (as far as I know it was only on the cheaper aftermarket pumps) and causing fuel to contaminate the oil.

Again, I'm not saying that's' even remotely like what's happening with these cars, but it took VW a long time to say it was anything other than an isolated problem, so I wouldn't exactly be surprised if Subaru/Toyota/Scion was doing the same thing.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Lawn_Mower

Neither, it was wear causing material to contaminate the oil.

Problems like that could be detected early by sending your oil to Blackstone. I don't think I'll ever do another oil change without sending a sample for analysis.

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

I'm assuming that there is a code for such a thing. For all I know, the engine shuts off from fuel starvation if the pump can't keep up and never throws a code. My assumption is with how finely tuned engines are these days, that there may be a sensor for that.

Don't know if there's a code, but you can display fuel pressure in real time using Torque. I have it as one of my regular gauges on my home screen. If you saw your fuel pressure degrade over time, suddenly drop or anything in between, you'd know you had an issue.

[STS-V]

I can't believe there still isnt a fix to this. I also have the chirps on my 2013, and its loud enough that people look at me when im next to them at a red light.

[makesdrivingfunagain]

Well after near 5000 miles of no crickets THEY ARE BACK. That would be on the 3rd replaced fuel pump. Not impressed with how they determined a normal functioning fuel system after they replaced the fuel pump. Sounds like they can't fix it so the "solution" is to default to "normal" for this car and engine.