after market parts

[enc0re]

Originally Posted by bofa

noooooooo

Why not? So that you can drive my insurance premiums up with street racing/drifting?

[bofa]

Originally Posted by enc0re

Why not? So that you can drive my insurance premiums up with street racing/drifting?

Don't blame me for how insurance companies work.... and I guarantee you I'm not the one f-in up your rates.

There are reasons those features have deactivation switches and its not to cater to "those darn street racers".

[blur]

Originally Posted by bofa

I'm not sure what you don't get about the appeal of a low cost sporty 4 seater vehicle and marketing hype.

This car will sell to all types. Oh.
It's cheap compared to similarly designed sports cars. Like what?
It automatically attracts Subaru, Scion, and Toyota customers. Really?
It should be fun to drive. As most 4 bangers are.
It's a small 4 cyl car so it will appeal to those looking for decent mileage. That's almost standard today.
The exterior design elements will attract those for a nice looking car. We don't even know how the car will look!
It has room for 4 so it will attract more than just the sports-car crowd. Trust me, someone looking to haul around 3 buddies isnt going to be looking at this car.
And yes, it is a good start for the tuners out there if they wish. No, not for tuners. For racing enthusiasts. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE. Tuners would rather a gen coupe with cheap "tuning" for HP.

These marketing people say stuff like that to get your attention. You think every person that owns a Subaru is a rally champion? Every person that owns a Porsche is a GT superstar? Every person that owns a 370Z is a drift king? They aren't specifically targeting those people - they are selling that "dream" to the enthusiast and potential customers that are watching and hanging on every word. I dont think the normal potential customer even recognized those terms. I cant see it being related to marketing if it's being delivered to a small group of people who will make up <5% of sales (hopefully).

This car is NOT a Porsche... not a Lotus... not a 370Z. If it was it would be priced accordingly. I dont recall calling it one.

Likewise, this car is not a Miata either. The most important differences are it seats 4 and (I think we can all agree) its more visually appealing. It is a fresh start instead of the different stigma's carried by a car that's been around for 22 years. Notice the word "like"? This car is lightweight, RWD, and 4 cyl, and is heavily supported by auto crossers and circuit racers.

This car is priced low, looks great, and built on quality manufacturing legacies and said to perform well. You will see many different demographics in this car simply based on price, design, and the fact that it seats 4, but I guarantee the lowest demographic will be the people that take their car to the track every weekend. I guess you will have to see it to believe it...We don't have the price, we don't know how it'll look, and once again, those back seats are not for everyday use. And I agree that the lowest demographic will be those that track their car every weekend, HOWEVER, a higher percentage would have bought the car because they are aware of it's track capabilities and are tracking it once a month/year(or planning to). I really do not see the appeal to an average customer for this car.

Okay, look at it this way . . . everyone I know that is out in the sports car market is looking at HP numbers, interior quality, aesthetic appeal, and 0-60 times. NO ONE gives a fuck about handling, low weight, low center of gravity, manageable power, etc. The people I talked to asked me whats the point in building a sports car if its slow in a straight line. And from there they didn't look interested at all.

There are reasons those features have deactivation switches and its not to cater to "those darn street racers".

Agreed.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by bofa

I'm not sure what you don't get about the appeal of a low cost sporty 4 seater vehicle and marketing hype.

This car will sell to all types.
It's cheap compared to similarly designed sports cars.
It automatically attracts Subaru, Scion, and Toyota customers.
It should be fun to drive.
It's a small 4 cyl car so it will appeal to those looking for decent mileage.
The exterior design elements will attract those for a nice looking car.
It has room for 4 so it will attract more than just the sports-car crowd.
And yes, it is a good start for the tuners out there if they wish.

These marketing people say stuff like that to get your attention. You think every person that owns a Subaru is a rally champion? Every person that owns a Porsche is a GT superstar? Every person that owns a 370Z is a drift king? They aren't specifically targeting those people - they are selling that "dream" to the enthusiast and potential customers that are watching and hanging on every word.

This car is NOT a Porsche... not a Lotus... not a 370Z. If it was it would be priced accordingly.

Likewise, this car is not a Miata either. The most important differences are it seats 4 and (I think we can all agree) its more visually appealing. It is a fresh start instead of the different stigma's carried by a car that's been around for 22 years.

This car is priced low, looks great, and built on quality manufacturing legacies and said to perform well. You will see many different demographics in this car simply based on price, design, and the fact that it seats 4, but I guarantee the lowest demographic will be the people that take their car to the track every weekend. I guess you will have to see it to believe it...

this is a car that will appeal to everyone, and so will sell to everyone. its not really a niche car if everyone likes it, and would want one.

for the enthusiast its a lightweight sports coupe with RWD and standard LSD
for the poor college student its going to be 20-25k
for the green people its a 2.0L 4 cyl that is supposedly going to have pretty good mpg
for the practical people/dads its supposedly a 2+2 and going to have a fold flat cargo area (hatchback/liftback???)
for the poseur ricer tuners it looks awesome and we've already seen the giant wing
for the tuners it comes with a subaru engine and will probably have a large aftermarket support
etc...

[madfast]

Originally Posted by blur

Okay, look at it this way . . . everyone I know that is out in the sports car market is looking at HP numbers, interior quality, aesthetic appeal, and 0-60 times. NO ONE gives a fuck about handling, low weight, low center of gravity, manageable power, etc. The people I talked to asked me whats the point in building a sports car if its slow in a straight line. And from there they didn't look interested at all.

those people arent enthusiasts, but street racing wannabes..

[bofa]

Originally Posted by blur

Okay, look at it this way . . . everyone I know that is out in the sports car market is looking at HP numbers, interior quality, aesthetic appeal, and 0-60 times. NO ONE gives a fuck about handling, low weight, low center of gravity, manageable power, etc. The people I talked to asked me whats the point in building a sports car if its slow in a straight line. And from there they didn't look interested at all.


Agreed.

I'm guessing you are young, naive, or both.. which is okay. But just consider that you might be wrong here.

This car will sell to all types. Oh. Read madfast's reply
It's cheap compared to similarly designed sports cars. Like what? The closest competitors stateside I see are the Miata and RX-8 and maybe the Gensis. What makes it cheap is that it's a step up from likes of the Civic Si, GTI, etc but still less than the likes of a 350Z, Camaro, etc.
It automatically attracts Subaru, Scion, and Toyota customers. Really? Yeah, do some reading on these boards.
It should be fun to drive. As most 4 bangers are. Sorry, most 4 bangers are not fun to drive, although I guess this is subjective compared to your Accord.
It's a small 4 cyl car so it will appeal to those looking for decent mileage. That's almost standard today. Amongst 4 cyl yes, but few cars manage to balance fun and economical.
The exterior design elements will attract those for a nice looking car. We don't even know how the car will look! We have 3 prototypes and test mules... I think we have an idea of where this is going.
It has room for 4 so it will attract more than just the sports-car crowd. Trust me, someone looking to haul around 3 buddies isnt going to be looking at this car. Did it occur to you that this car would be considered by young and middle aged business people, people with kids or dogs, or people that need a back seat for other reasons? If your example of a guy with 3 buddies had to choose between this and a Corolla.. which do you think they would choose?
And yes, it is a good start for the tuners out there if they wish. No, not for tuners. For racing enthusiasts. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE. Tuners would rather a gen coupe with cheap "tuning" for HP. So wrong... tuners will sup' up a golf cart if one is sitting in their garage. If you really want to believe there is a difference, then we can agree it applies to both. But the difference between a racing enthusiast and a tuner in my mind is the tuner has dirtier hands.

These marketing people say stuff like that to get your attention. You think every person that owns a Subaru is a rally champion? Every person that owns a Porsche is a GT superstar? Every person that owns a 370Z is a drift king? They aren't specifically targeting those people - they are selling that "dream" to the enthusiast and potential customers that are watching and hanging on every word. I dont think the normal potential customer even recognized those terms. I cant see it being related to marketing if it's being delivered to a small group of people who will make up <5% of sales (hopefully). Speaking for yourself? When in a prototype or development phase of course they won't market it to larger audiences yet.. but wait until it's in the production stage.

This car is NOT a Porsche... not a Lotus... not a 370Z. If it was it would be priced accordingly. I dont recall calling it one. I'm pointing out that it fits below these classes of cars.

Likewise, this car is not a Miata either. The most important differences are it seats 4 and (I think we can all agree) its more visually appealing. It is a fresh start instead of the different stigma's carried by a car that's been around for 22 years. Notice the word "like"? This car is lightweight, RWD, and 4 cyl, and is heavily supported by auto crossers and circuit racers. Notice the word "not"? This car so far not supported by anyone yet, since it's not being made and people have not made up their minds depending on the production model. I still maintain that auto crossers and circuit racers will be in the minority of the potential buyers out there.. less than 1%.

This car is priced low, looks great, and built on quality manufacturing legacies and said to perform well. You will see many different demographics in this car simply based on price, design, and the fact that it seats 4, but I guarantee the lowest demographic will be the people that take their car to the track every weekend. I guess you will have to see it to believe it...We don't have the price, we don't know how it'll look, and once again, those back seats are not for everyday use. And I agree that the lowest demographic will be those that track their car every weekend, HOWEVER, a higher percentage would have bought the car because they are aware of it's track capabilities and are tracking it once a month/year(or planning to). I really do not see the appeal to an average customer for this car.
We know of a targeted price range, we have test mules that are being tweaked in preparation for production. I expect we'll continue to get more info as this moves along. I'm telling you though... a majority of car buyers will never know or understand the potential this car has. They will think it's a cute peppy coupe... just a bit more expensive than a tC.

[enc0re]

Originally Posted by bofa

Don't blame me for how insurance companies work.... and I guarantee you I'm not the one f-in up your rates.

There are reasons those features have deactivation switches and its not to cater to "those darn street racers".

They can have a slow speed deactivation for getting snuck in the snow etc. Just have them automatically come back on when the speeds go up, or there's heavy braking, too many g's and so on.

A bit like the stability and traction control in the early IS350. They give you an off switch, but the nanny never really steps away. She just lets you think you're in charge.