i just realized... 2016 turbo 4cyl CAMARO vs FRS/BRZ

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Bergen23

But that's you taking opinions. I've seen enough bad reviews of the twins to know that you should take every review with a grain of salt.

It's pretty simple. The negative reviews and the positive views said the exact same thing: it turns well, is tail happy if you want, feels good, and has a so-so engine. Some liked that and some didn't, but the vast majority agreed on these points.

Originally Posted by Bergen23

But then I always forget that the only cars superior to the twins are Cayman's and 100k+ supercars, but then only ones that have manual trannys.

EDIT: And after being in a ride along in a friend's 2015 Mustang GT, that is a capable (to me) car. It's comfy, fast and can handle surprisingly well, considering everyone and their mother on the internet says if you try to turn a Mustang, it'll explode. I've stopped putting the twins on the pedestal, since I know that it isn't the "right" car for me. It's also funny how when any car gets brought up in comparison the argument always comes back to "But it's so heavy, wah wah wah wah". Yes, the twins provide a great driving experience, but is it REALLY that much better of an experience?

You can talk sales numbers all you want about the Twins outselling everything else in their "category" (Ie, 2 door sports car, so Twins, Miata, 350/370, Genesis, Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, whatever else I'm missing) but, the twins are also the cheapest, are they not? That was a pretty big selling point for me, and they got even cheaper, because I got an employee discount and a grad rebate. If they were all equal price, I probably would have gotten into something else.

Eh, well, I didn't say all these things. Just the stuff about light weight. I mean it, too. I've tracked a 4000lbs car with wide tires and lots of HP. It's not nearly as fun, but it's surely easy to pass people.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

Eh, well, I didn't say all these things. Just the stuff about light weight. I mean it, too. I've tracked a 4000lbs car with wide tires and lots of HP. It's not nearly as fun, but it's surely easy to pass people.

Agree with this. Before my FR-S, having tracked only with a heaver/taller mk6 GTI and STI hatch, it's amazing how much more fun the FR-S is, despite being massively down on power. I'm sold on lightweight and low CG for track days.

[Kimsey47]

[Fishbed77]

dude a camaro is a fat ass beast of a car compared to the super-light FRS!

Not sure I agree with the idea that Camaros can't turn, especially with the right handling package (i.e., 1LE or Z/28 configuration). They can definitely be made to turn and put up impressive lateral grip numbers in corners at the track.

They just won't feel like a lightweight RWD sports car due to the weight and size.

Having once owned a 1994 (4th gen) Z28, I can say for a fact that those cars, despite being heavy, could turn, and were quite fun to drive. At approx. 3400 lbs, they were a good bit lighter than the portly 5th gen cars. The steering feel was not bad, despite being somewhat artificially weighted. Riding on stock-sized tires, grip was surprisingly good, and braking performance was every bit as good as a Twin.

Obviously, my 2013 FR-S has better steering feel, and is much more responsive and composed than that car. But it should be, as it is lighter, doesn't have a 5.7 liter V8 sitting over the front axle, has tighter build quality, and is 20-year newer technology. But just because the current Camaros are grossly overweight (like almost all current "performance" cars), doesn't mean the model should be completely dismissed.

Is anybody actually long-term happy with a Camaro? I can't imagine I would ever be.

That depends. My afore-mentioned 1994 Z28 (which I owned up until 2000) was comfortable (with great seats, a roomy cockpit, and good ergonomics), had a decent ride, handled well, outperformed 99% of the cars on the road at that time, and even got pretty good fuel mileage.

What did it in for me was the shoddy reliability of the electrics and expensive repair bills related to them (though the drivetrain was extremely reliable), and the fact that, at that point in my life, I felt the need for a vehicle with more space.

As always, your mileage may vary.


.

[Chrisgalactic]

Op why not go for the Camaro? You sound more ethusiastic about it and shouldn't you be asking this question to people who actually own Camaros? I find it kind of strange but maybe its just me. At the end of the day it comes down to preference and driving styles and which "you" believe you would be happier with in the long run.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900AZ using Tapatalk

[Fastbrew]

Camaros became classic thousands of years ago. I enjoy being in on a new classic.

[RandomDeception]

Originally Posted by Fastbrew

Camaros became classic thousands of years ago. I enjoy being in on a new classic.

I know what you mean.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJMBTGFqopI"]é**æ–‡å*—D æ–°86 - YouTube[/ame]

Many years later down the line in the "Initial D" saga.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Bergen23

EDIT: And after being in a ride along in a friend's 2015 Mustang GT, that is a capable (to me) car. It's comfy, fast and can handle surprisingly well, considering everyone and their mother on the internet says if you try to turn a Mustang, it'll explode. I've stopped putting the twins on the pedestal, since I know that it isn't the "right" car for me. It's also funny how when any car gets brought up in comparison the argument always comes back to "But it's so heavy, wah wah wah wah". Yes, the twins provide a great driving experience, but is it REALLY that much better of an experience?

I've driven 4 Mustangs at this point, all from the last gen '12-'14 and yes, to me the 86 is that much better of an experience. So much so I've spent ~$30k on my car, and so have hundreds of thousands of others.

Edit: And I would do so again, if my car got totaled I'd go out and buy a used one with the insurance money and keep driving it, put it back to the same level of modification that I am currently at.

Differences are what makes life interesting.

I love momentum cars and will continue driving them for the rest of my life in all likelihood, low weight and high handling capabilities always beat horsepower and comfort in my book. I'm not here to convince you, only voice an opinion like you have.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Shinchu

yup. I'm going there.

but i just cant stop thinking about how well a camaro could handle with half the cylinders missing...

Please don't...

You can stop thinking. How about nowhere remotely as close to a Z28 with twice the cylinders and added weight.

If you are buying a 4000lb muscle car for handling because it has half the cylinders of a V8, you should consider seeing a professional.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Bergen23

But that's you taking opinions. I've seen enough bad reviews of the twins to know that you should take every review with a grain of salt.

Yeah, but those reviews were from people who actually drove the car. What was your original point again?

If you have to ask if adding more than a half ton of weight makes a difference to handling, boy this isn't the right car for you. Myself and others can feel a loss of 30lbs from taking out the spare tire or using a lighter battery. If you can't, get a Camaro.

[Chad11491]

Originally Posted by Bergen23

But then I always forget that the only cars superior to the twins are Cayman's and 100k+ supercars, but then only ones that have manual trannys.

how could you forget that!

yeah, this forum is a big circle jerk 90% of the time.

[Bergen23]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Yeah, but those reviews were from people who actually drove the car. What was your original point again?

If you have to ask if adding more than a half ton of weight makes a difference to handling, boy this isn't the right car for you. Myself and others can feel a loss of 30lbs from taking out the spare tire or using a lighter battery. If you can't, get a Camaro.

I don't do HPDE, work schedule is too crazy. So minor differences don't make a lick of difference to me.

I also drive an auto, so I'm not an enthusiast and I'm also a shitty driver so I wouldn't know about or notice any of that.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Bergen23

I don't do HPDE, work schedule is too crazy. So minor differences don't make a lick of difference to me.

I also drive an auto, so I'm not an enthusiast and I'm also a shitty driver so I wouldn't know about or notice any of that.

You bastard! You blew up my sarcasm detector.

[shu5892001]

To everyone that says the twins are selling so well because they are cheap. Look at my signature, I bought a FR-S in June 2012 and got rid of it to get a CPO 2010 M3, but came back to a FR-S 2 years later. This should tell you a lot about how I feel about a FR-S minus the price factor. I track my car at least 5-10 times each summer and while the M3 is a beast, the handling is no comparison for a FR-S.