Would you prefer that the FRS had a "real" engine?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by venturaII

I agree. I'm just amused at how so many people think a rather generic motor is such a triumph of design and technology. It moves the car adequately; no more, no less.

I don't care who designs/builds it. All internal combustion engines are generic. Period. Changes are incremental. There is nothing mysterious about any of it.

Originally Posted by akash_

i don't understand what people are bitching about. the way this car comes out of the factory is great. for what i bought this car for I'm more than happy with the engine, suspension , interior,...etc. honestly i understand that this car lacks power but its got enough to stay nose to nose with a 14 wrx sti on the free way.

Yup. I'll go one better. This car does not lack power. Like the rest of the car which is "just right," so is the engine. I don't know about the WRX but, then again, IDGAF.

[mrybczyn]

Here's a dyno of a ferrari lampredi 3l v12 from the golden age of sports cars:



Notice any similarities?

[stevesnj]

I for one like the engine choice and it's low center of gravity. The Subaru Boxer fits in with what Tada wanted and to keep the spirit of fun. Just enjoy the car!!

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

This car does not lack power. Like the rest of the car which is "just right," so is the engine. I don't know about the WRX but, then again, IDGAF.

It doesn't lack peak power, but it sure could use some help in the midrange. Whoever signed off on that torque dip as acceptable in a sports car should be fired. I realize the dip can be driven around on a track, but as this is a street car, it's in just about the worst spot possible. Luckily it seems a header is all that's needed to fix the issue, but it's a little disappointing that it's needed in the first place. Having to keep the motor under 3500rpm, or over 5000 is kind of a PITA on public roads.

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Just enjoy the car!!

I still do. It's just a shame that the car seems so well designed everywhere else right out of the box, but the motor is rather... "meh".

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by venturaII

I agree. I'm just amused at how so many people think a rather generic motor is such a triumph of design and technology.

I really don't see that many people calling it a "triumph of design and technology." That doesn't mean it's not a real engine, and calling bullshit on someone who thinks it's not a real engine doesn't automatically mean we worship it.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by stugray

I should also point out that boxer engines are the preferred engine for small aircraft up to ~400 hp.
That is due in large part to it's inherent reliability.
Anyone who has been to a aircraft museum would know that the boxer layout has been used in more IC vehicles than almost any other.

It's funny you mention that. Last night I had ready to post a bunch of photos of flat Continentals, Rotaxes, and Subie engines mounted in aircraft. Last minute I said to myself, "No, I'm not gonna get sucked into another one of these threads."

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by venturaII

.
I still do. It's just a shame that the car seems so well designed everywhere else right out of the box, but the motor is rather... "meh".

Understandable. I will be happy as is. To each their own

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by mrybczyn

Here's a dyno of a ferrari lampredi 3l v12 from the golden age of sports cars:



Notice any similarities?

Underwhelming performance, which is why they ditched them in favor of continuing development of the older Colombo motors?

[ajaxthebetter]

Realistic expectations are needed in these instances. If one wants a feat of mechanical engineering propelling the car, then the car will be twice as much. They make those--Porsches and Vettes. The old engines people wax about wouldn't fly by today's standards. Besides, the potentials of those were often found when their value had dropped and they could be built and modified economically.

Honest question: are there any other modern engines out there that could have been put into this vehicle which are superior and would not have changed the price? Maybe the Ford ecoboost? SI engine?

It is what it is, and it does just fine, in my opinion. Best part about this car and drivetrain--it is begging to be modified, and I purchased it knowing I eventually will.

The passive aggressive thread title was what did you in, no doubt.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by venturaII

It doesn't lack peak power, but it sure could use some help in the midrange. Whoever signed off on that torque dip as acceptable should be fired. I realize the dip can be driven around on a track, but as this is a street car, it's in just about the worst spot possible. Luckily it seems a header is all that's needed to fix the issue, but it's a little disappointing that it's needed in the first place. Having to keep the motor under 3500rpm, or over 5000 is kind of a PITA on public roads.

Oh, come on. It's a fucking go kart. In the middle of the dreaded torque dip it's still better than any perfectly functional econobox.

It boils down to acoustics, the layout of the engine, and economics. Instead of whining about the torque dip (not just you) why not consider the engine has been tuned to make use of VVT to give us 2 sweet spots and learn to use them both. It has a 6-speed gearbox FFS.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Oh, come on. It's a fucking go kart. In the middle of the dreaded torque dip it's still better than any perfectly functional econobox.

It boils down to acoustics, the layout of the engine, and economics. Instead of whining about the torque dip (not just you) why not consider the engine has been tuned to make use of VVT to give us 2 sweet spots and learn to use them both. It has a 6-speed gearbox FFS.

~2800 pounds isn't a go kart, by any stretch, no matter what motor is powering it. Maybe if compared to most of the generic drivel being churned out today, it's far better, but let's not get carried away...


I understand what causes the dip. Apparently so do many other people who make headers designed to cure it. I just find is a little disappointing that a redesigned exhaust is needed not to boost peak numbers, which is what people usually shoot for, but rather to prevent falling into a hole right when you'd normally expect a motor to wake up. Not so disappointing that the rest of the car's positives didn't outweigh this one negative, but to me it's a pretty significant faux pas for a sports car.

[Tromatic]

I get a strange sense of pleasure knowing that about one quarter of the FR-S/BRZ's is see are being driving by people who would rather be driving something else. Those people are, as far as I can tell, retarded. Yeah, it has limitations in the engine room. If you cant learn to drive around them and have massive fun despite those limitations, either sell the car or do something about it.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Instead of whining about the torque dip (not just you) why not consider the engine has been tuned to make use of VVT to give us 2 sweet spots and learn to use them both. It has a 6-speed gearbox FFS.

That would require "driver involvement" and some effort. Ain't nobody got time for dat. These clowns would be complaining if it had 300 hp.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by venturaII

~2800 pounds isn't a go kart, by any stretch, no matter what motor is powering it. Maybe if compared to most of the generic drivel being churned out today, it's far better, but let's not get carried away...


I understand what causes the dip. Apparently so do many other people who make headers designed to cure it. I just find is a little disappointing that a redesigned exhaust is needed not to boost peak numbers, which is what people usually shoot for, but rather to prevent falling into a hole right when you'd normally expect a motor to wake up. Not so disappointing that the rest of the car's positives didn't outweigh this one negative, but to me it's a pretty significant faux pas for a sports car.

Headers are only part of it and don't forget emissions. Please don't mistake my realistic expectations and understanding for exuberance. And yes, it is a go kart just like @stugray's Porsche. The flat 4 is a good chunk of it.

How much did we pay for these little machines?