Electric Supercharger - Market Speculation

[tahdizzle]

My view on Electic superchargers is this:

If you don't want to spend $$$ on a traditional S/C or a Turbo S/C but you want what ever it is the ESC gives you. Fine. Its your money, do as you will.

Do not claim that it will ever be as good or be better than any traditional S/C or Turbo S/C. Because they can't. If they could then automanufacturers would be using them.

Those articles that people are using to skew what ESCs are actually being used for, is further proof. ESCs are being used to IMPROVE existing technology, not replace.

And honestly, how much longer are will really going to be using internal combustion engines anyway?

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by campy

To answer the initial question of "why aren't manufacturers making ESC kits?", it's because nobody would buy them. If I'm already willing to spend $3000, why not spend an extra $2000 and get the extra benefits of a real supercharger? Companies will only sell parts that are in demand. I don't want a weak FI system that only activates at WOT. And the claim "+50whp with aftermarket headers" isn't a very good selling point. Rev Works tuned a 100% stock FRS to over 200whp, and people with headers alone already see upwards of 200whp. As a buyer in the FI marketplace, that leaves me wonder what benefit comes from the ESC itself.

I think the reason for the ESC's apparent success on this forum is because the owners of this car are strangely frugal. People shell out $25k-40k for a brand-spankin'-new car, then demand the cheapest parts for it.

I won't deny that money has something to do with it but that is not at all my MAIN reason why the system interests me. I'm not interested in turbos, the only two options that seem to tickle my fancy are the JRSC & ESC. From a consumer standpoint here are some reasons why I'd choose one over the other.

The ESC is something significantly easier to install, I wouldn't feel comfortable installing a turbo or SC myself because I'm not familar enough with everything that goes into it. CSG said it takes about 8 hrs to install, I assume that's someone who is experienced. So perhaps double that time, if you wanted to do it yourself. So thats more cash outta my pocket.

The ESC is simply less complex, therefore there are less chances it would fail. Granted the reliability of the JRSC seems to be VERY high, most would agree they would feel safer when everything is simpler.

The ESC is easy to remove, from other people's experience it takes 30 minutes to an hour.

The ESC is still undergoing much product development so future iterations can whoop some butt, there is already a partial throttle booster. And a full time ESC controller is on its way via Shiv.

This is all stuff that's already mentioned & there are more reasons, ESC isn't just popular because its relatively cheap. I may be slightly biased because I already own OFT+OFH, Shiv is supporting the system. With the development of the OFT and the constant support & updates, if Shiv backs it, its definitely something worth keeping an eye on.

[Ultramaroon]

I think in this debate, a very real incentive is being overlooked.

It's cool.

[tahdizzle]

There is a market for Electric Superchargers.

Just not the ones that started the topic, besides the niche group that does want an ESC to replace a traditional S/C.

[Blu-by-U]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

There is a market for Electric Superchargers.

Just not the ones that started the topic, besides the niche group that does want an ESC to replace a traditional S/C.

Stop, no one is trying to replace full time FI and this system can't. Everyone knows that. This system has been described as a never ending bottle of NOS. It has it's limits and advantages. Show me the dynos from a full time FI system that produces the low end torque @ 2500 rpm that this system does.

[xuimod]

Originally Posted by so_fr-sh

I would argue that $1500-$2500 entry-level forced induction kits have more market potential than your serious $4000+ kits, especially for low-budget sports cars. The Phantom ESC has done an exceptional job exploiting this opportunity and bringing the demand to light.

Let's be real, while many people who buy sports cars such as the 86 twins may be car enthusiasts, the overwhelming majority of them never actually track their cars. While 300+ whp certainly sounds like it would be unbelievably fantastic, most street-goers cannot justify the $5000-$6000 price and instead settle with $1500-$2000 in bolt-ons that produce minimal gains. Remember, this is a budget car that is purchased by a lot of young people that are tight on money. That $2000-$4000 range is almost completely untapped.

The ESC satisfies this gap in the market, and I look forward to seeing how Phantom and other companies respond to this in the future.

The Sprintex Supercharger and SBD Turbo kit both retail for around $3000. And lots of Twin owners have those kits.

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I think in this debate, a very real incentive is being overlooked.

It's cool.

What incentive are you referring to?

Originally Posted by jdv14476

Stop, no one is trying to replace full time FI and this system can't. Everyone knows that. This system has been described as a never ending bottle of NOS. It has it's limits and advantages. Show me the dynos from a full time FI system that produces the low end torque @ 2500 rpm that this system does.

Really? How do you know that? How do you know people are not choosing the Phantom ESC as an alternative to traditional FI systems?

[Blu-by-U]

Originally Posted by xuimod

What incentive are you referring to?




Really? How do you know that? How do you know people are not choosing the Phantom ESC as an alternative to traditional FI systems?

Show me your numbers and we'll debate. Prove to me that stop light to stop light, traditional FI is better. You are sounding like a salesman losing market share.
Sprintex SC - 3200.00 +/- no intercooler, no tuning.


First of all, if you pay attention to the threads in the forum, more members are traditional FI (SC or TC) than there are purchased ESC kits.

[xuimod]

Originally Posted by jdv14476

Show me your numbers and we'll debate. Prove to me that stop light to stop light, traditional FI is better. You are sounding like a salesman losing market share.
Sprintex SC - 3200.00 +/- no intercooler, no tuning.


First of all, if you pay attention to the threads in the forum, more members are traditional FI (SC or TC) than there are purchased ESC kits.

No kidding because there's a 8 month waiting list for the Phantom ESC and they only are able to produce a few kits a month. That's why more people don't have the Phantom ESC because supply is very constrained.

I never said traditional FI is better or worse. I'm saying there's no way of YOU knowing the intention of the buyers of the Phantom ESC. YOU said the buyers of the Phantom ESC are not buying it to replace traditional FI systems.... the problem is that is almost pure conjecture on your part. But you are stating it like its a fact.

[Blu-by-U]

Originally Posted by xuimod

No kidding because there's a 8 month waiting list for the Phantom ESC and they only are able to produce a few kits a month. That's why more people don't have the Phantom ESC because supply is very constrained.

I never said traditional FI is better or worse. I'm saying there's no way of YOU knowing the intention of the buyers of the Phantom ESC. YOU said the buyers of the Phantom ESC are not buying it to replace traditional FI systems.... the problem is that is almost pure conjecture on your part. But you are stating it like its a fact.

Salesman afraid of losing his job, do feeding effin troll.

[xuimod]

Originally Posted by jdv14476

Salesman afraid of losing his job, do feeding effin troll.

Hey fanboy, terrible job of defending your flimsy position.

Two can play at the name calling game.

[raven1231]

Can we close this thread please?

[Teseo]

Why?

[8ighty6]

Originally Posted by xuimod

No kidding because there's a 8 month waiting list for the Phantom ESC and they only are able to produce a few kits a month. That's why more people don't have the Phantom ESC because supply is very constrained.

I never said traditional FI is better or worse. I'm saying there's no way of YOU knowing the intention of the buyers of the Phantom ESC. YOU said the buyers of the Phantom ESC are not buying it to replace traditional FI systems.... the problem is that is almost pure conjecture on your part. But you are stating it like its a fact.

Obviously it's impossible to accurately measure people's preferences or predict how they're going to change with the adoption of new products in the future. It's all speculation... but who cares... this is a car forum, not some academic board.

It's logical to speculate that buyers of current ESCs aren't trying to replace FI systems. I for one would be interested because 1) I can't justify spending 4k+ on FI for a car that isn't tracked 2) I probably don't have the technical know-how to properly maintain a serious FI kit. But thats just me... It would actually be pretty cool if Phantom conducted a customer survey and I'm sure it would help provide direction for future projects. And who knows...with all the talk about bigger batteries and throttle re-mapping, it could one day evolve into a FI replacement. Exciting!

Anyways, thanks for referencing those two FI kits around 3k. I'll surely look into them. ...Though I'm guessing it's another 1k or so for installation and whatnot? ..again bringing you to x2 the price of an ESC.

[Wolfdogelite]

Originally Posted by xuimod

Hey fanboy, terrible job of defending your flimsy position.

Two can play at the name calling game.

Someone took a double dose of their haterade today.