Electric Supercharger - Market Speculation

[PowderfaceTr.]

If you are referring to my comments on the business model it doesn't work. Not financially.

This goes to show how shallow minded this band wagon is. You assume I had a problem with the design of this system. I followed it since day one. Robs shop is just down the street from me. I don't see scientific proof how it can be competitive with other simpler technologies. Its only a great compound turbo solution.

I was designing electric skateboards back when A123 cells came out. Don't try to pigeon hole me thinking I'm some automotive junkie who hates leaf blowers.

[WNDSRFR]

?

[raven1231]

No one effing cares....

[l0aded]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

Say what ever you guys want about all this subjective appreciation. The numbers don't add up. The only thing the ESC has on a EBAY turbo kit is the some people cant unscrew a manifold for the life of them. They both spool the same. Have any of you ran a small turbo? They have tons of low end and fall on their face just a fast as the ESC. Its the same physics, only one is efficient the other is inefficient and pile of Lead. Do you really think adding more lead to your car is a performance modification? so whine all you want about install time, too much power, and cost. The fact is banks, the ones that back product design firms, don't care about your dreams unless you can prove it in a paper. I suggest you find some engineer undergrad to write his thesis on the applications of ESCs before you go sell your house.

The thing I don't understand is how you think the system does not work. We all have one, there are dynos that have been run, it's clearly boosting the car for little cost. The eBay ones have been shown to lose power. There is still room to improve but I believe we are past the proof of concept portion.

[ImBatman]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

Don't try to pigeon hole me thinking I'm some automotive junkie who hates leaf blowers.

You've been pigeon-holed as a nay-saying troll who is adding no valuable insight to the conversation.

Move along.

[tahdizzle]

Gonna put this sticker on my car when I go FI :p

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

Say what ever you guys want about all this subjective appreciation. The numbers don't add up. The only thing the ESC has on a EBAY turbo kit is the some people cant unscrew a manifold for the life of them. They both spool the same. Have any of you ran a small turbo? They have tons of low end and fall on their face just a fast as the ESC. Its the same physics, only one is efficient the other is inefficient and pile of Lead. Do you really think adding more lead to your car is a performance modification? so whine all you want about install time, too much power, and cost. The fact is banks, the ones that back product design firms, don't care about your dreams unless you can prove it in a paper. I suggest you find some engineer undergrad to write his thesis on the applications of ESCs before you go sell your house.

Next time Fenton and I go to the dyno you are welcome to drop by...bring a calculator

[LucidMomentum]

Originally Posted by Robftss

Next time Fenton and I go to the dyno you are welcome to drop by...bring a calculator

Yo guys, he changed the argument again. He's saying it's not financially smart to make this as a business.

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

The fact is banks, the ones that back product design firms, don't care about your dreams unless you can prove it in a paper. I suggest you find some engineer undergrad to write his thesis on the applications of ESCs before you go sell your house.

Rob has proved it on paper. Did he quit his day job? No, not at all. That's why we have a wait list almost 100 strong. Would it be a great source of income? Maybe not.

But he makes a fair profit on each one (I hope), and the customers are pleased. He doesn't have to sell his house because he kept it small scale.

Would it make for the next big boom in the FI market? Maybe not. Does it work? Yes. Is it working as a side hustle? Yes. Are car manufacturers looking into it as well? Yes.

So the application works, is tested, is proven and can be improved. The demand is there, and the automotive industry is looking into it.

Maybe it's just a flash in the pan? Maybe you're right and you shouldn't sell your house to get in on the ground floor, like so many solar companies did back in the day. Maybe speculations are being a little to optimistic.

But there's something good here. It's improving too, which is a good sign.
However, where Rob is right now does work well for him, and for us. I hope you see that at least.

I think you're seeing it as we all want these ESC kits to be the next BitCoin and are as fanatic about it as the cryptocurrency evangelists are about their digital wallets. We aren't really.

But the market is increasing and picking up, and that's what excites us. We aren't making false demand or trying to fit the ESC in wherever we can regardless of usefulness just to make it into the next big thing.

We're just pleased that it works well, serves a decent purpose, and with advancements in the future may be a viable option for a wider audience.

[brzaapi]

Wow. I don't understand the hate. An ESC is just another tool in the "horsepower toolbox". Another method to have fun with a car. I am glad I bought my ESC. It was a unique education compared to my many other Turbo'd and SC'd hotrods I built up.


All methods have their place, even if the method doesn't fit your current objective. I mean I love that diesel is coming back and being used in vehicles other than trucks. I love that turbos are coming into their own and even pedestrian vehicles have them. With hydrids and E-Cars growing fast (whether you want them to or not), I think a little boost from an electric fan is pretty cool.
Its even cooler, once you realize the bump in HP you get for the money.


Quite frankly with all the great cars and great ways to mod your ride these days, why bitch about all the options that you have. Maybe electric power isn't sexy or manly enough for some people to get their d**k hard. But power is power, performance is performance. Any other way of thinking is very short-sighted. I mean I love the sound of an old V8 w/ a carburetor. Classic. I respect it, but not one of my cars that I race with, uses a carburetor.


But all you flat-world society guys go on thinking that an ESC doesn't add power. Either way I still don't understand why you would hate any item that adds power to a car.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

But all you flat-world society guys go on thinking that an ESC doesn't add power. Either way I still don't understand why you would hate any item that adds power to a car.

GTFO!

[PowderfaceTr.]

Uh.
Every ten comments I have to reiterate How nowhere in this thread has anyone said it doesn't make power. Its just cheaper to sell a 50 horse turbo kit. Thats what your competing with. You get all worked up about how you think I'm bashing the product. Ass hats think like that and its the only thing you all have proved to do when some one questions anything about it. Like the economics of the situation.

If I had an issue with his design I would be posting it in the design thread. If you all were as confident as you all sound, you have some data collected to blow me off with ranter than banter.

[Shankenstein]

I apologize if its been covered previously, but has it been investigated to use ESC with a larger turbo?

Similar to this:


Like an series hybrid (EREV) drivetrain, the electric bits can make an impact where they are the most effective (high torque, low RPM). Once boost and flow rate are built, the electric motor disengages, allowing the battery bank to recharge... heck maybe you can even generate electricity when the turbo would normally open a wastegate.

It's still just wishful thinking, but high-speed brushless DC motor tech is becoming more approachable.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

...Its just cheaper to sell a 50 horse turbo kit. Thats what your competing with....

please put together a parts list with prices for me.

If it is low mounted it wouldn't need a turbo manifold, but would need a new overpipe, and straight pipe, plus an external oil pump. I'm not sure which way would be cheaper.
An intercooler might cost too much, and even without it you will still need new intake piping with relocated MAF/filter, or just a lot of additional intake piping. Recirculated Bov would add costs so it would go to atmosphere, and Wastegate in a small turbo will probably be internal which wouldn't add much to the price since the new strait pipe/down pipe would be designed to fit. I would be interested to see if you can build a quality set up for under $1700 without tune, or $2200 with.

But as you mention market competition, I believe we are now back into the aftermarket category? We could try to figure out the factory side, but hell my car came with a noise maker instead of a arm rest so maybe you will have better luck figuring out their logic than I did. What really comes to mind, is that if you are the type of person that's willing to spend all the time necessary to personally install a turbo kit, are you really the same type of person who will buy the weakest available kit when a better kit will install in the same amount of time? I say no, based on the lack of that kit in the market. If you are not the type of person to install it yourself (which makes up the vast majority of the target demographic) the install prices you out of the market.

[LucidMomentum]

[quote=Shankenstein;2205259]I apologize if its been covered previously, but has it been investigated to use ESC with a larger turbo?

[QUOTE]

So like a twin turbo, with the ESC helping overcome turbo lag? Seems like a neat idea.

Originally Posted by PowderfaceTr.

If I had an issue with his design I would be posting it in the design thread. If you all were as confident as you all sound, you have some data collected to blow me off with ranter than banter.

There's a whole thread with Dyno results. I linked you to one a few comments ago.

Also: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66862