Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger

[why?]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

My friends track hard at 330+ whp nonstop in 86cup. I was 330 whp for roughly 15 track days before I took the kit off. No failure or signs of failure for any of us.

Id say cosworth is wrong in their assessment.

Or super conservative just to make sure someone doesn't do something dumb and then blame the cosworth supercharger.

[killboy]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Torque bends rods, not horsepower. You keep mentioning that "Cosworth said this" and "Cosworth said that", but never actually cite your sources. Statements such as the bold above, tell me you either hear what you want, or make things up that are completely asinine.

If that were the case, ptuning wouldn't use a GT30, and Edelbrock wouldnt use a TVS 1320.

Originally Posted by ajc209

I had a tour of the Cosworth headquarters and spoke with lead lead engineer, Matt when the SC was in development.

http://www.gt86ownersclub.co.uk/foru...333.html#94644

I even saw an FA20 on the engine dyno cell. It was fun.

Or he could have been...you know, telling the truth.

My tuner (Sharif @ Forged Performance) spoke with Cosworth UK at length about the kit. They told him the same thing...tested for many many hours, kit was detuned to maximum safe power for the stock internals. 250whp. When they refer to the HP limit, they are referring to their kit, which coincides with a fairly specific TQ spec tied to that HP spec. Since most people measure power output by HP, they just defaulted to that value for simplicity.

I run the Cosworth kit on my FRS with stock internals, and I can also attest to the fact that this kit will not heat soak. What I do where I drive is like doing constant dyno pulls for 10 minutes solid....accel from low RPM to redline, brake, repeat...at fairly low speeds. Cooling efficiency on this unit is impressive.

[killboy]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

My friends track hard at 330+ whp nonstop in 86cup. I was 330 whp for roughly 15 track days before I took the kit off. No failure or signs of failure for any of us.

Id say cosworth is wrong in their assessment.

Was that a PD supercharger setup or turbo?

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

As for torque bending rods, either you're over the failure point, or under the failure point.

I dont think Matt was implying they bend over time. He's talking about metal fatigue leading to ultimate failure of the part.

Yes for low cylce fatigue you get plastic deforation very quickly and failure but high cycle fatigue is harder to predict without some materials science, which requires analysis of the rod material and putting it into some very fancy software to analyse. Sounds easy but takes alot of effort. Even then the point to faliure will vary as it depends how people drive the car.

I look forward to hear what Edlebrock have to say when you tell them "350WHP blew a rod out the side of my block but it worked for the first 20k miles". I'm not a gambling man but I bet it will be along the lines of:

"we only guarentee 242WHP so sod off"

Some further reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigu...-cycle_fatigue

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ajc209

I dont think Matt was implying they bend over time. He's talking about metal fatigue leading to ultimate failure of the part.

Yes for low cylce fatigue you get plastic deforation very quickly and failure but high cycle fatigue is harder to predict without some materials science, which requires analysis of the rod material and putting it into some very fancy software to analyse. Sounds easy but takes alot of effort. Even then the point to faliure will vary as it depends how people drive the car.

I look forward to hear what Edlebrock have to say when you tell them "350WHP blew a rod out the side of my block but it worked for the first 20k miles". I'm not a gambling man but I bet it will be along the lines of:

"we only guarentee 242WHP so sod off"

Some further reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigu...-cycle_fatigue

There's a big difference between guaranteeing power, and giving the option of letting the customer decide if they want more power (e.g. the pulleys that Edelbrock offers).

Everyone going for more power should know that more power means exponentially higher chances of failure.

I briefly did a lot of metallurgical analysis and failure mode analysis when I interned at Boeing back in college...

[BigFatFlip]

I love how I'm reading more about the cosworth SC in the Edelbrock thread than the cosworth owners thread.

[Freeman]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

I love how I'm reading more about the cosworth SC in the Edelbrock thread than the cosworth owners thread.

Cosworth vs Edlebrock seems to be the new JR vs KW.

[Porcupint]

Originally Posted by Freeman

Cosworth vs Edlebrock seems to be the new JR vs KW.

Is that really a comparison?

[Freeman]

Originally Posted by Porcupint

Is that really a comparison?

Lol nope And yet people do it any way.

< KW owner who should have waited for Edlebrock.

[ajc209]

Sorry if it seems like I am trying to shit on the Edlebrock chaps. I Reference the work Cosworth have done becuase I what I have been told and the shear amount of R&D they have done.

The Edlebrock cirtainly looks like a nice bit of kit and with the warranty and lower price point, I can certainly see how it would be nice option for you guys state side. Here in the uk the price difference is not so big and we don't get the warranty.

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by ajc209

Sorry if it seems like I am trying to shit on the Edlebrock chaps. I Reference the work Cosworth have done becuase I what I have been told and the shear amount of R&D they have done.

The Edlebrock cirtainly looks like a nice bit of kit and with the warranty and lower price point, I can certainly see how it would be nice option for you guys state side. Here in the uk the price difference is not so big and we don't get the warranty.

No offense taken (for me at least), just trying to inject some humor in a heated debate.

I myself have considered the cosworth, but being in the US, and even worse, California, my choices are very limited if I want to stay CARB legal. I don't doubt that such a large engineering firm like Cosworth has "done their homework" to provide a kit that delivers, and the price tag definitely reflects that.

Granted, even though Edelbrock did not do any engine dyno testing or any fancy simulations, they are no small operation (all development and testing was done on their handful of test cars on real world environments), after speaking to their SC engineers, seeing their facility and knowing their history on the USDM aftermarket, I'm still looking forward to what they have in store.

If you are still here @Edelbrock LLC sill waiting on your updates regarding the fuel economy fix and any track testing

[350matt]

so what we're basically saying here is Cosworth should release some smaller / faster pulleys for thier kit?
Just for the tune it yourself market
so no gaurentees and don't come crying to us when your stock block puts a leg out of bed

here's a load more boost and good luck....

[itsibarra]

Originally Posted by 350matt

so what we're basically saying here is Cosworth should release some smaller / faster pulleys for thier kit?
Just for the tune it yourself market
so no gaurentees and don't come crying to us when your stock block puts a leg out of bed

here's a load more boost and good luck....

Yea, why not? Just as long as the Cossy kit itself can support the boost. As you mentioned it is the TIY market, therefore those pushing higher boost levels should already know the risk involved with a stock engine and going that route.

[why?]

I just don't think that is Cosworth's thing though. They seem to want to be an all in one solution, not a parts vendor. I assume they will release this next rumored stage at some point including everything you could possibly need to make sure it will run perfectly as long as you want it to.