FRS vs Evo?

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by p12

Maybe I misunderstood something here, but how else are you going to get a FRS to same the levels of HP, suspension, and tire as an Evo without modifications?. I never said a 300HP FRS wouldn't kickass, but it doesn't exist from the factory so how else are you going get it? That's why I mentioned modifications and the potential it brings in terms of reliability and longevity. That's what I meant in taking a realistic approach. You can have these things, but it's going to cost some money to get to that point from either doing it yourself or buying it from the factory if that was a option.

Yes I understand that the FRS would have a better power/weight ratio (if it was modded) and lower center of gravity. But the FRS came out of the factory without the power/weight ratio so you need mods to get it to that level you seek. The FRS has a better chassis built on it's own platform instead of sharing one so there's no arguing that the FRS has a more dedicated chassis.

Your original question asks "Would a FRS kick the EVO's butt on the track if it has the same amount of whp and better suspension+wheel tire setup?" In a short response, sure. ~2800lbs, 300HP, low CoG, sporty suspension and sticky tires, how could it not kick a Evo's butt? A Evo has almost everything at a disadvantage at this point so how can anyone debate this now? That's why I said it's not fair to compare a stock Evo to a modded FRS. Modded FRS to modded Evo, its anyone's game depending on the budget and the goal of the car.

If that's the answer you seek, then there you go. If not, then I'll remove myself from this thread cause I don't want to get your emotions stirred up with my "lame comments and comparisons". Hopefully someone else here can give you the answer you're looking for. I just tried to point out that if you did have a FRS like that, it wouldn't be the same FRS we all know and first experienced when we first bought the car. With more power and upgraded parts, I think it would completely change the way it drives. It's original concept of a light, RWD affordable/inexpensive (affordable I'll define as under $30K USD but this is a subjective number because it differs from person to person, place to place) sports car is now in the Nissan Z class of cars and with that comes a bigger price tag. I wasn't trying to argue with you, just trying to bring up a point to consider with a lightweight, 300HP, low CoG, sporty suspension and sticky tires FRS. Sorry if I misunderstood your question OP.

I don't think I'm understanding something here...

Why can't you compare a modded frs to a stock evo???

Did they cost the same factory??? No???? Ok so there's one reason to compare a modded frs to a stock evo.

Did they have the same whp from the factory???? No??? Ok, so there's another reason to compare a stock evo to a modded frs...

I just don't get it. If people love the feel of the frs but want more power, it's like people who even own a twin get butt hurt if you try to talk about performance per dollar...

You said in one of your posts, at least I think it was your post, in one breath that the evo starts out at 15K more, then said that you could make the same mods to the evo that you make to a twin, so that makes it a better performing car dollar to dollar... ummm NO it doesn't, you would have to spend 15K in mods on the frs before you can even START to mod an evo before you can compare them dollar to dollar.

That is the point when modding the twins...There is nothing on the market right now that compares performance wise dollar to dollar.

When you start bringing up the higher dollar vehicles, it gets even more ridiculous, because then I can start bringing up drive train swaps...

Jaden

[vgi]

Originally Posted by Jaden

I don't think I'm understanding something here...

Why can't you compare a modded frs to a stock evo???

Did they cost the same factory??? No???? Ok so there's one reason to compare a modded frs to a stock evo.

Did they have the same whp from the factory???? No??? Ok, so there's another reason to compare a stock evo to a modded frs...

I just don't get it. If people love the feel of the frs but want more power, it's like people who even own a twin get butt hurt if you try to talk about performance per dollar...

You said in one of your posts, at least I think it was your post, in one breath that the evo starts out at 15K more, then said that you could make the same mods to the evo that you make to a twin, so that makes it a better performing car dollar to dollar... ummm NO it doesn't, you would have to spend 15K in mods on the frs before you can even START to mod an evo before you can compare them dollar to dollar.

That is the point when modding the twins...There is nothing on the market right now that compares performance wise dollar to dollar.

When you start bringing up the higher dollar vehicles, it gets even more ridiculous, because then I can start bringing up drive train swaps...

Jaden

you can. assuming that by ~compare~ you mean taking a real car (FRS/BRZ/FT86) with concrete mods list on a concrete track in specific weather conditions and seeing if it's faster than the stock evo in specific category or around the trac.

otherwise you can speculate as much as you want tweaking virtual mods on your hypothetical car and thinking what ever numbers (total time, 0-60 or 1/4, speed per gear, trap and et, etc) it should make.

[samisons]

Get that driver mod

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by Jaden

That is the point when modding the twins...There is nothing on the market right now that compares performance wise dollar to dollar.

Subaru WRX, Focus ST, VW GTI, V6 Mustang


All cars around the same price that "outperform" the FRS/BRZ.


Not saying you specifically, but some people will act as though the FRS/BRZ is the greatest car to ever be built. The fact is it's a niche car for niche buyer. It has a target demographic and it doesn't satisfy everybody who drives it in the same ways.


If we were talking best performance for the dollar, I'd take the WRX in a heartbeat. It is a much better all around car compared the FRS. period.


If we're comparing stock vehicles, the Evo is definitely the higher performing car. When we're talking about modifications, it's all semantics cause it just comes down to the size of the owner's wallet.


Me personally, I don't care to spend the money on this car to fit it with crazy sticky tires, 300+hp, big brakes, and all that other stuff. If I want that, I'll just get a car that gives me that from the get go.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Me personally, I don't care to spend the money on this car to fit it with crazy sticky tires, 300+hp, big brakes, and all that other stuff. If I want that, I'll just get a car that gives me that from the get go.

What new car are you going to get that would equal the price and overall performance of a well sorted 300+hp FRS/BRZ with sticky tires and race ready brakes?


Some wacked out people might think the FRS/BRZ is the greatest car ever built. Some other people who are equally confused might think you can get a Focus/Fiesta, Mustang, Genesis, or WRX to perform or drive up to the potential of the 86 platform. Apart from AWD and rallying in the snow or mud, you can get the 86 to best any of those platforms when they inherently top out. If maximizing potential isn't your thing, then so be it.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by abraxis

What new car are you going to get that would equal the price and overall performance of a well sorted 300+hp FRS/BRZ with sticky tires and race ready brakes?


Some wacked out people might think the FRS/BRZ is the greatest car ever built. Some other people who are equally confused might think you can get a Focus/Fiesta, Mustang, Genesis, or WRX to perform or drive up to the potential of the 86 platform. Apart from AWD and rallying in the snow or mud, you can get the 86 to best any of those platforms when they inherently top out. If maximizing potential isn't your thing, then so be it.

Lol what? When did this become a conversation about somebody's driving skill? We're talking about money and value for dollar with stock vehicles and modifying them.

Cars aren't exactly an investment. I'm not going to spend 25k in parts on a 25k scion to use it on the track once every month or two. To me, it just isn't worth it. I'd rather have an M3 or something else. I never once mentioned anything about potential. I simply commented on out of box performance.

Maybe you're the one who's confused?

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Lol what? When did this become a conversation about somebody's driving skill? We're talking about money and value for dollar with stock vehicles and modifying them.

Cars aren't exactly an investment. I'm not going to spend 25k in parts on a 25k scion to use it on the track once every month or two. To me, it just isn't worth it. I'd rather have an M3 or something else. I never once mentioned anything about potential. I simply commented on out of box performance.

Maybe you're the one who's confused?

Obviously, since I was the one who spent that entire post talking about driving skill and investing right?

[totopo]

Originally Posted by abraxis

What new car are you going to get that would equal the price and overall performance of a well sorted 300+hp FRS/BRZ with sticky tires and race ready brakes?


Some wacked out people might think the FRS/BRZ is the greatest car ever built. Some other people who are equally confused might think you can get a Focus/Fiesta, Mustang, Genesis, or WRX to perform or drive up to the potential of the 86 platform. Apart from AWD and rallying in the snow or mud, you can get the 86 to best any of those platforms when they inherently top out. If maximizing potential isn't your thing, then so be it.

The problem of talking about modded cars is building modded cars isn't like in gran tourismo. It's not like you just pay x amount of money and slap on random parts and it works just as well as a new car.

When you talk about cost do you count time? decrease in resale value? expected cost of repairs at 100k miles?

The transmission and axle and probably the universal joints of the frs aren't designed to last >100k miles at 300 torque. So does the cost involve the chance of them failing? the time wasted in fixing it? labor costs?

So why are you comparing a-in-your-mind-modded frs to a real new car? They are completely different things. Why not compare a modded frs to a modded older car? Just take your imaginary mods and apply it to an imaginary s2k or e36 m3 or c5 corvette and that imaginary car will probably be better than your imaginary frs.

[Richyjc]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Dude, please the regular font is just fine.
I am going to be seeing that post in my sleep as I think it is now etched into my retinas.

Holy crap, I just Lol'ed at work.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by abraxis

What new car are you going to get that would equal the price and overall performance of a well sorted 300+hp FRS/BRZ with sticky tires and race ready brakes?


Some wacked out people might think the FRS/BRZ is the greatest car ever built. Some other people who are equally confused might think you can get a Focus/Fiesta, Mustang, Genesis, or WRX to perform or drive up to the potential of the 86 platform. Apart from AWD and rallying in the snow or mud, you can get the 86 to best any of those platforms when they inherently top out. If maximizing potential isn't your thing, then so be it.

You think the frs has I huge performs ceiling than the wrx or the Mustang?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Richyjc

Holy crap, I just Lol'ed at work.

I do it all the time. My coworkers are quite convinced I am totally insane at this point.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Subaru WRX, Focus ST, VW GTI, V6 Mustang


All cars around the same price that "outperform" the FRS/BRZ.


Not saying you specifically, but some people will act as though the FRS/BRZ is the greatest car to ever be built. The fact is it's a niche car for niche buyer. It has a target demographic and it doesn't satisfy everybody who drives it in the same ways.


If we were talking best performance for the dollar, I'd take the WRX in a heartbeat. It is a much better all around car compared the FRS. period.


If we're comparing stock vehicles, the Evo is definitely the higher performing car. When we're talking about modifications, it's all semantics cause it just comes down to the size of the owner's wallet.


Me personally, I don't care to spend the money on this car to fit it with crazy sticky tires, 300+hp, big brakes, and all that other stuff. If I want that, I'll just get a car that gives me that from the get go.

I said that's the point when MODDING the twins. Not when running "stocked' (pun intended) cars of similar price points.

Shit, wheels and tires will put it over ANY of those cars you mentioned on the track. e85 and oft will as well.

The base platform of the twins is phenomenal for modding compared to ANY other car at the same price point.

You can get it to perform better than higher performing more expensive cars before you get it to the same starting price point.

Jaden

[ScoobsMcGee]

This thread is still going? It should have died. Can we let it die?

[Teseo]

It can die as long EVO won