Question regarding lightweight wheels and cheaply priced tires..

[WallsAndFoundations]

Originally Posted by BRGT86

tires make a bigger difference in handling/performance on a car than a wheel does. id rather have a heavy oem cast wheel with sticky tires than a lightweight TE37 wheel with some shitty generic all seasons.

Very true. I was looking at some michelin AS3 as well as Hankook Ventus.. I can't remember the name of the model though.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

I am a big believer in you get what you pay for

But I also see a lot of new Mercedes with continental tires with bubbled sidewalls. I also saw my moms lexus come with shitty bridgestone el400 tires that come on base model civics

SO I dunno but

I know on track, no one is running shit brand bargain basement tires

I guess bottom line; do research for your intended application and keep in mind "you get what you pay for" with a grain of salt.

This. Lower prices guarantee lower quality/strength, but higher prices don't guarantee higher quality/strength.

But, if you do your research, and ask before you purchase, the forum can generally point you in the right direction.

[CSG Mike]

If you want something grippy, you want something with a *lower* treadwear rating than stock.

Stock is 240TW.

Grip and TW are inversely related. Higher TW = less grip, but longer life. Lower TW = more grip, but shorter life. If you find the stock tires do not have enough grip for you, you want a lower TW tire.

E.g. a Hankook RS3, which is 200TW.

Anything 100TW and lower is considered a purpose built racing compound tire, and most tires 40TW and lower are not DOT legal.

[WallsAndFoundations]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This. Lower prices guarantee lower quality/strength, but higher prices don't guarantee higher quality/strength.

But, if you do your research, and ask before you purchase, the forum can generally point you in the right direction.

Precisely why I made the thread. Thank you sir! I have a few months before I buy it so I wanna make sure I get the right stuff

[avp1]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Tire Rack can get you close (see below), and it's a lot better than decent.

Note that the diameter of 245/45-18 tires is two inches greater than stock.

I wouldn't use tires that larger in diameter than stock. It will reduce performance. Probably 1/2 of an inch bigger is OK, but no more. And you should try to keep total weight of wheel and tire the same or lower than stock. $2000 for a set is duable, but likely if you agree to stay with 17" size.

[Cockatoo]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If you want something grippy, you want something with a *lower* treadwear rating than stock.

Stock is 240TW.

Grip and TW are inversely related. Higher TW = less grip, but longer life. Lower TW = more grip, but shorter life. If you find the stock tires do not have enough grip for you, you want a lower TW tire.

E.g. a Hankook RS3, which is 200TW.

Anything 100TW and lower is considered a purpose built racing compound tire, and most tires 40TW and lower are not DOT legal.

But the stock tires do not have that much grip.... their TW rating is just terrible, and shouldn't be used as a baseline.

This is mainly because they have a traction rating of "A".... and most performance tires we would be talking about have a "AA" traction rating. I'm running Michelin PSS and they have soooo much more grip and they have a TW of 300, but have a "AA" traction rating.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by avp1

I wouldn't use tires that larger in diameter than stock. It will reduce performance. Probably 1/2 of an inch bigger is OK, but no more. And you should try to keep total weight of wheel and tire the same or lower than stock. $2000 for a set is duable, but likely if you agree to stay with 17" size.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Cockatoo

But the stock tires do not have that much grip.... their TW rating is just terrible, and shouldn't be used as a baseline.

This is mainly because they have a traction rating of "A".... and most performance tires we would be talking about have a "AA" traction rating. I'm running Michelin PSS and they have soooo much more grip and they have a TW of 300, but have a "AA" traction rating.

I'm not sure how much reliance I'd put in either of those UTQG grades when comparing tires. This is what the Rack has to say about them:

Treadwear Grades

UTQG Treadwear Grades are based on actual road use in which the test tire is run in a vehicle convoy along with standardized Course Monitoring Tires. The vehicle repeatedly runs a prescribed 400-mile test loop in West Texas for a total of 7,200 miles. The vehicle can have its alignment set, air pressure checked and tires rotated every 800 miles. The test tire's and the Monitoring Tire's wear are measured during and at the conclusion of the test. The tire manufacturers then assign a Treadwear Grade based on the observed wear rates. The Course Monitoring Tire is assigned a grade and the test tire receives a grade indicating its relative treadwear. A grade of 100 would indicate that the tire tread would last as long as the test tire, 200 would indicate the tread would last twice as long, 300 would indicate three times as long, etc.

The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful.

Traction Grades

UTQG Traction Grades are based on the tire's straight line wet coefficient of traction as the tire skids across the specified test surfaces. The UTQG traction test does not evaluate dry braking, dry cornering, wet cornering, or high speed hydroplaning resistance.

The Traction Grade is determined by installing properly inflated test tires on the instrumented axle of a "skid trailer." The skid trailer is pulled behind a truck at a constant 40 mph over wet asphalt and wet concrete test surfaces. Its brakes are momentarily locked and the axle sensors measure the tire's coefficient of friction (braking g forces) as it slides. Since this test evaluates a sliding tire at a constant 40 mph, it places more emphasis on the tire's tread compound and less emphasis on its tread design.

In 1997, the UTQG Traction Grades were revised to provide a new category of AA for the highest performing tires in addition to the earlier A, B and C grades. Previously the A grade had been the highest available and was awarded to tires that offered wet coefficients of traction above 0.47 g on asphalt and 0.35 g on concrete. Today the grades and their traction coefficients are as follows:



Unfortunately the immediate value of this change to tire buyers will be limited. Use of the AA grade will first be seen on new tires that are introduced after the standard was enacted and will then appear later on tires that have had the required wet traction all along, but were introduced when the single A was the highest available grade.